When you're religion was built on support for slavery, how can you be so sure, you are right?

Question

The Southern Baptist Church was created out of support for slavery. They used both the Old and New Testament to support their racist beliefs. Because they believed in the inerrancy of the Bible, nothing could convince them that otherwise.

If you can't figure out owning another human being is wrong, what makes people think Southern Baptists know what is right and wrong today? They say homosexuals are evil because the Bible says so (not in the gospels though). Well the Bible also condoned and defended slavery and you guys admittedly were wrong about that.

And don't tell me it was not about slavery. Here they are, admitting it and apologizing for it.
http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=899

I won't even focus on the Old Testament, because it is filled with backward teachings...

"Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior." (Titus 2:9-10)

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free." (Ephesians 6: 5-8)

"Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties.

Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth." (1 Tim. 6:1-5)

CJ,

You asked if there was any slavery in the New Testament. There was and I already provided the quotes. There was slavery during Paul's time, but instead of objecting, he condoned it, saying anybody who disagrees is conceited and does not know Jesus Christ. This is the type of scripture Southern Baptist used to defend slavery in the 1860s.

Southern Baptists didn't need to spin the Bible to support slavery. The Bible supports slavery, period.

Now, if the Bible was this wrong about slavery, what makes you think 100 years from now they won't be apologizing for bashing gays?

Orchid,

It matters wheter something is mentioned in the gospels versus if it is mentioned in the Old Testament and words of Paul. Ever read about the Paul versus Jesus controversy?

If you are a true christian (in my opinion), the words of Jesus supersede everything else. If you are a fundamentalist, you have to believe in the Old Testament and words of Paul and all the other backward stuff that comes with it, such as support for slavery, keeping women down, holy wars, killing nonbelievers, stoning disobedient children, burning witches, taking your enemies virgin's for yourself, cursing those who do not kill, etc.

Answer 1

Its not what it might have been built on BUT what is supports now

Answer 2

You're basing entire Christianity on the Southern Baptists? The last time I checked, the Southern Baptists have their own doctrine, and that makes it man-made, doesn't it? Anything man-made has flaws and cracks in it. Meaning, it's imperfect.

The Scriptures, on the other hand, are God-breathed. Meaning they come from God Himself. And that is the basis for Christianity. We believe the Bible to be God's word.

If the Southern Baptists supported slavery at one time, then it surely showed a flaw in their doctrine. One can go through scripture, manipulate it, and make it sound any way you want to, if you're creative enough.

You speak of the "Bible" and how it condoned slavery. Do you see any slavery in the New Testament? Who was a slave? Name me one. So you're saying that Christians are now slaveholders? Where in any nation do Christians now hold slaves? Name me one.

Are you still fighting the Civil War, and attempting to discredit the Bible in the process? Slavery was outlawed in 1862 after the Battle of Antietam. The Civil War ended in 1865, and slavery was gone. So why are you still drudging this up? When are those wounds going to heal?

As for homosexuals...... the Bible does state, "A man who lies with a man as a woman, is an abomination unto the Lord." And the Bible states, "The Lord is the same yesterday, today, and forever." So why would He change his mind about it? He condemned homosexuality then, and He condemns it now. It's not acceptable to God, and it never will be. The Creator has the right to dictate what is moral and what is not. He sets those boundaries, because it is His place to do so. Condemning God doesn't justify what people do. That doesn't change His opinion or how He thinks. And just because someone doesn't like what He has to say because it conflicts with their immoral lifestyle, doesn't make God away. He's here to stay, and so are His rules.

Answer 3

"The Southern Baptist Church was created out of support for slavery."

Yes.ONE denomination,not the whole of Christianity.

"They used both the Old and New Testament to support their racist beliefs."

Strange,because the Bible does not condone racism.

"Because they believed in the inerrancy of the Bible, nothing could convince them that otherwise"

Yes,and they did not understand those verses in the Bible.

"If you can't figure out owning another human being is wrong, what makes people think Southern Baptists know what is right and wrong today?"

Going by that logic,virtually none of the organisations today would be considered to be right.Like the courts.Because remember,they decided that slaves were only 3/5ths human?

"hey say homosexuals are evil because the Bible says so (not in the gospels though)."

Yes,the Bible condemnes homosexuality,along with fornication,bestiality,and adultery.

"Well the Bible also condoned and defended slavery and you guys admittedly were wrong about that."

Doesn't anyone actually look at the culture,the intent of the words,and the actual practices anymore? In Biblical times,that wasn't how slavery worked.People,if they could not support themselves or pay their bills,would work for a household where they would get clothed,be provided with food,a roof over their heads,and they would be released every seventh year.
For someone to suggest that the Bible condones slavery is foolishness.
This is also ignoring the many Christian abolitionists.

Answer 4

I'm Catholic and have read very little on Baptists. I will read that site more later but right there is too much for me to read now and it's too late for me to comprehend :)

If I'm not mistaken, the first slaves mentioned in the Bible are the Israelites while the Pharoah in Egypt had them enslaved. These weren't Africans, they were from Israel, Arabs, correct?

Why does it make a difference that God talks about homosexuality being an abomination and the 4 gospels don't mention homosexuality? If God says something, God said something. Plus homosexuality is mentioned in Romans 1:27; 1 Corinth. 6:9; and 1 Timoth 1:9-10 -- all in the NT.

Answer 5

Firstly the Bible is inerrant, it is us who make the mistakes in how we interpret it, and many people interpret it to suit themselves, bit like using it like a cafe menu, I like that, yes I will have two of them, no don't want that and so on.

The Bible does not say homosexuals are evil, but it quite clearly states that homosexuality is wrong, and yes it does say so in the gospels. Romans 1:26,27 - 1 Cor 6:9 - 1 Timothy 1:10 and so on.

Regarding the slavery thing of course they were wrong, but heres the thing Christianity is not based on the wrong actions of Southern Baptists or anyone else for that matter, but is based on the sinless Son of God who gave His life that all might be saved.

JB

Answer 6

I don't think modern Christians will understand your question.They generally try to forget what their belief system has done and try to even pretend that slavery never happened or that they were the ones who ended it.When humanity advances far enough it is only with hope that Christians will advance with it.They just move a lot slower because they are grasping their Bibles looking for reasons why they can and should keep the status quo.

Here is some forgotten history that you should point out to denying Christians about slavery:

"Slavery was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral."19th Century Rev. Alexander Campbell

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." 19th Century Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina

"The hope of civilization itself hangs on the defeat of ***** suffrage." A statement by a prominent 19th-century southern Presbyterian pastor, cited by Rev. Jack Rogers, moderator of the Presbyterian Church (USA).

"The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined." United States Senator James Henry Hammond.


All of these quotes reflect what American Christians would say about slavery before it was abolished.Doesn't it sound familiar to what they now say about homosexuality?

Answer 7

A true, personal relationship with Christ in comparison to religious institutions aren't necessarily the same. Religion is man made. Not all of it is preordained by God. Anything man touches is imperfect, has been and will be until the end of time. Slavery is one of the cruelist forms of human endeavor in history. As in the times of earlier empires that used slavery, it has shown that all the "religious" structures of man couldn't stop the savagery and inhumanity that has existed since the Creation. It also shows the presence of Satan and evil has an antithesis to what is truly Holy and good.

Answer 8

You should try reading those verses in Greek to see what they really say. People have always released a new version of the Bible so it would say exactly what they wanted it to say. You can be the slaveholders had their own wording for it. Don't get mad at the Bible, get mad at the people who do horrible stuff with. You can bet the slaveholders were'nt reading the book of Philemon. Or 1Corinthians 12.

Answer 9

They have also flip-flopped on abortion. In 1971, Southern Baptists were called upon "to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity". In 2003, they admitted they had "accepted unbiblical premises of the abortion rights movement, forfeiting the opportunity to advocate the protection of defenseless women and children" and renounced "statements and actions by previous Conventions and previous denominational leadership that offered support to the abortion culture".

Answer 10

I do not understand what you mean by slavery. People work to get income or food and on every level. And slavery is one of the lowest level of work and in return they get food. During those time they do not really depend on money but are using more on bartering system.
So what slavery are you talking about. And in some country now people still have servants and maids and domestic helps. It is the same work as the slave back in those days only modernised.

Answer 11

Explore other options, but not just because your church supported slavery. There are many contradictions in the bible.