If God is three persons, who is the progenitor of Jesus - the Father or the Holy Spirit? Because the Bible says that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit.
Also, woudn't that make Jesus the third person? How did He become the second person of the trinity?
Something wrong with that doctrine - beside the fact that it isn't found anywhere in the Bible!
2007-03-19 14:50:14 · 15 answers · asked by pmzenz 2 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Touche my friend. I completely agree with you. I don't believe at all in the Trinity. If people looked around and researched where the doctrine came from, they would be shocked. It is not at all a Biblical teaching.
Thanks for bringing a good, logical argument up here!
2007-03-19 15:31:14 · answer #1 · answered by surfchika 4 · 2⤊ 3⤋
One God in three Persons called the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the creation story in Genesis --- the Father was the mastermind or architect, the Son was the Word that spoke, and the Holy Spirit was the Person that moved and activated the Divine Will and Purpose by the Word and brought it into being. So it was in the formation of a body for Jesus to indwell. The Father was the architect of salvation, the Son received a body, the Holy Spirit moved upon Mary to "create" the physical form and transfer the "essence" of Christ into that form. The Son is the second member of the Trinity by virtue of relationship. The Father being first with the Son second per relationship terms and office work. The word "trinity" is not mentioned in Scripture but the concept of the Trinity is all over the pages of Scripture.
2007-03-19 22:03:20 · answer #2 · answered by wd 5 · 2⤊ 0⤋
I don't really think that you've studied the Bible all that much so why should you be telling us who have studied the Bible all our lives what is in it and what isn't in it? The phrase " the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit" is a direct quote right out of the Bible, so the fact is that it is found somewhere in the Bible. Are you not aware that the human body of Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit and that is not talking about is eternal existence at all?
2007-03-19 22:01:32 · answer #3 · answered by oldguy63 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
It's not found in the Bible? You are mistaken. Although the word "Trinity" is not found in the Scriptures, the doctrine is clearly displayed.
There are many times where Jesus said of Himself that He was God. He applied the name of God, "I AM," to Himself in several passages. Here's a few examples: Matthew 14:27, Mark 6:50, Mark 13:6, Luke 21:8, John 4:26, John 6:20, John 8:24, 28, 58, and John 13:19. (These listed are in the Greek, as opposed to English, since many English translations use "I am He," or "It is I," instead)
There are several other passages I have not listed, but those alone should be enough. Besides all of those, Jesus said that He & the Father were one (John 10:30). This describes a unity, even though there are two.
The Trinity has an underlying appearance in the Old Testament as well. In Genesis, we see during creation that God said, "Let us make man in our image." and also when man sinned, God said, "...man has become as one of us, to know good and evil..." Who was He speaking to? The other persons of the Trinity. We also see that the Spirit of God hovered over the waters in the beginning, and in John 1:1-3, it clearly states that Jesus (the Word) made everything.
Another angle to pursue is the various Scriptures that demonstrate that God's attributes are present in Jesus as well as the Holy Spirit. For example, the Father is eternal (Psalm 90:2), and so is the Son (John 1:2), and so is the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14). Another shared attribute is their holiness. Only God is truly holy. The Father is holy (Revelation 15:4), so is the Son (Acts 3:14), and so is the Spirit (Acts 1:8).
An ancient diagram of the Trinity can be helpful in getting your hands around the doctrine, and can be found at the link in the SOURCE list.
RESPONSE TO MRS MOM: When Jesus used the term "I AM," they nearly stoned Him for blasphemy. The Jews knew exactly what the implications were. As to the Scripture that states "I AM" is God's name, I refer you to Exodus 3:14. "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
The Hebrew (and the Greek in the case of the Septuagint) is clear, and the Jews knew what He was implying. The Hebrew phrase (transliterated) is "ehyeh asher ehyeh," and the Septuagint scholars (all Jews, who knew the Greek and Hebrew well) translated it "ego eimi ho on," which literally means "I am the one who is," in English.
I hope that helps some!
2007-03-19 21:57:30 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 1⤋
The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible. Nevertheless, it is a word used to describe one fact the Bible teaches about God: Our God is a Trinity. This means there are three persons in one God, not three Gods. The persons are known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and they have all always existed as three separate persons. The person of the Father is not the same person as the Son. The person of the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit. The person of the Holy Spirit is not the same person as the Father. If you take away any one, there is no God. God has always been a trinity from all eternity: "From everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God" (Psalm 90:2).
2007-03-19 21:55:42 · answer #5 · answered by Jo 4 · 1⤊ 1⤋
If the trinity were a Christian teaching, where in the Bible did Jesus teach it to his disciples? Nowhere! There is no verse or verses in the Bible that say God is composed of 3 co-equal, co-eternal persons. The trinity is based, no on Scripture, but on the Catholic Athanasian Creed, which says in part: "So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal."
The trinity is a man-made doctrine.
2007-03-20 03:28:54 · answer #6 · answered by LineDancer 7 · 0⤊ 1⤋
Sorry, my friend, but it is found in the Bible... not the term, but the concept. It is in Matthew 28:19: "...baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". If you look closely, the Bible says that Jesus came into human flesh through the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35), but he always existed in eternity as the "Word" of the Father, according to the first chapter of John: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was in the beginning with God...and the word became flesh and lived among us" (John 1:1,14). And Jesus himself supported this view, calling himself "the one who came down from heaven" (John 6:51), and when the Jewish religious leaders argued with him because he called himself the "Son of God", he said "I and the Father are one... the Father is in me, and I in the Father" (John 10:30,38)
I believe that these terms of the "first, second or third person of the trinity" are crude, inadequate terms that people have come up with to explain how Jesus called God "my Father", himself the "Son of God", and said that he and the Father are "One". Because in fact the Oneness of God is something that is constantly affirmed by the Bible... for example in Mark 12, Jesus affirmed the statement of Faith in Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" (Mark 12:29)... yet how Jesus and the Father could appear as separate from each other and yet be so totally One that Jesus said, "the Father is in me, and I in the Father". Although it never seems to bother anyone that God and the Holy Spirit are One. Concerning the Holy Spirit, Jesus told his followers that the Father would send the Holy Spirit "in my name" (John 14:26), but earlier John the baptizer said that Jesus would baptize in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11). So it looks as if the Father and Jesus have the same Spirit, which is one aspect of their being totally united.
The trinity is has been a much-debated subject throughout church history... part of the problem I believe is that humans cannot always understand God. If you believe the Bible is the Word of God, sometimes you just have to take what is says without being able to understand it completely, and have humility that some things about God may be too hard for the human mind to totally grasp.
Thanks for listening friend... I know it's a tough question... I've tried to answer along the lines of what I believe to be fairly orthodox Christian... check out the Bible yourself if you want to know what it says....
: )
2007-03-19 22:42:32 · answer #7 · answered by fire2ziel 2 · 2⤊ 1⤋
Sounds to me like those who say the trinity consists of God being the "persons" are basically diagnosing God with schizophrenia.
One perfect example to demonstrate that God and Christ are NOT part of a trinity is the fact that Jesus says he wants his followers to be one with him just as he and the father are one. Besides the fact that he mentions only he and the Father and leaves out completely the holy spirit, reasoning as a trinitarian this passage would mean that God, Christ and the holy spirit are no longer 3 in 1, but AT LEAST 15 in 1 (1 God + 1 Christ + 1 holy spirit + 12 apostles). Then when you add in the other Christians over the course of history, that number would increase.
2007-03-19 23:06:57 · answer #8 · answered by Kelly L 3 · 2⤊ 2⤋
I personally think it has been misunderstood. I think the Trinity is about our existence here. I think it is the father (the energy that powers this existence), the son (the human form we take) and the holy spirit (our own soul) that they are talking about in that Trinity.
In that sense Jesus was conceived of the holy spirit (his own personal soul) in combination with the life energy (Father or God) and his physical incarnation (the son or child of God) - just like you and me. We are all children of God and none of us would be here without those 3 vital ingredients.
Peace!
2007-03-19 21:58:15 · answer #9 · answered by carole 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Dusty where is it in the bible that the words "I AM" makes up the name for God. Seeming as Ps.83:18 states that Gods name is Jehovah.
God is not three persons... De 6:4; Mal 2:10; Mr 10:18; Ro 3:29,30
Son created;God alone before...re3:14; Col1:15; Isa44:6
Son obedient in heaven, sent by Father.. Joh 8:42;12:49
Son obedient on earth Father greater. Joh 14:28; 5:19; Heb 5:8
Jehovah is Christs head and GOd.. 1 co 11:3; Joh 20:17; Re 1:6
2007-03-19 22:10:33 · answer #10 · answered by mrs.mom 4 · 2⤊ 2⤋
Mark 1:10-11. As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.
This is the example of the three in one. God speaking, the spirit decending and Jesus, the Son.
2007-03-19 21:58:00 · answer #11 · answered by Poohcat1 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋