Supposing God existed?

Question

I have a friend Jonah who loves going out clubbing, enjoys a drink and a smoke, hes a re-born Christian, when I asked him how he rationalizes this with his faith, he said 'When I die God will pat me on the back and say Jonah I gave you a life and you lived it, thank you' Do you think sanctimonious Christians could learn something from his attitude. He is a very lovely guy.

Just to stir it up further I must tell you I'm an atheist, Jonah is one of very few Christians that seem to walk the walk and talk the talk, i.e. hes a realy nice person who doesn't hate and is not holier than thou.

I'm by and large of Avondrow's way of thinking, I find the more 'Christian' a person claims to be the nastier they are. Jonah's just an interesting exception

Answer 1

Sister... May Allah (swt) Guide you towards truth..
one of my atheist friend ask me question in same yahoo answers but when i got the answer he closed taking answers..
you are looking somewhat same.. so i found this.. for you .. i hope it will help you..
i don't know about Bible .. but about Quran i 've found many many scientific facts which can prove that God (Allah swt) Exists. and he revealed this Quran for us so we can guide ourselves by knowing the teaching of this Holy Quran...

Proving The Existence Of God to an Atheist(a person who don't believe in God) by Dr. Zakir Naik

Congratulating an Atheist

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers.

An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.
My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.

Logical concept of God

My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.

If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.
Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.

Qur'an and Modern Science

Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.
If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.

Theory of Probability

In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.
A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.

Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.
At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.
The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.
Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.
The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.

Creator Is The Author Of The Qur'an

The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.

Qur'an is a book of Signs not Science

Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.

But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.

Science Is Eliminating Models Of God But Not God

Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).

"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?" The Holy Qur'an Verse:41 Chapter:53

Dr. Zakir Naik

Source(s):
if you want to learn more reasons... check this site.. www.irf.net,, www.islamtomorrow.com
in this site you'll find a topic Quran and modern science


May Allah (swt) guide you towards truth..

Answer 2

Supposing you are imagining God didn't exist?

As you say, your spirit knows Jonah is rationalizing. He is not rationalizing faith; as faith is not a set of beliefs but a God-gifted human ability.

You seem to be saying that people who do not smoke or drink are all sanctimonious Christians; which is far from reality. I think that your own guilt is producing imaginary sanctimonious Christians. Worse yet you have a boy friend who is an imaginary born again Christian.* I'm sure you know how many fake things there are on the party scene these days.

*By dictionary definition, Jonah is sanctimonious because he is claiming piety he does not have and is pretending to be something he isn't or does not honor. Let's hope he is imaginary, for the sake of your question.

Answer 3

God did not say we should not live a normal life. But what we do with our time is something we are accountable for. Lots of young people enjoy dancing and need time to socialize with their age group. It does depend on what kinds of places you go to, whether it is appropriate. All of these things are part of the person's conscience and formation. My fear is that this Jonah could be swallowed up by the whale of the world and never really understand the life the Lord wants to share with him.

God calls us to a life of love and family. If Jonah hopes to meet a good mother for his children in a bar, I think he might have better luck at the grocery store. If he wants to be serious with God he needs to apply himself to study and hard work, in order to make the world a better place and develop his talents and his mind; which is his calling as a Christian. And as for the definition of sanctimonious, he may be feigning righteousness by acting as though this is all that is required of him. People who know how to pray are not pretending.

sanc·ti·mo·ni·ous (sngkt-mn-s)
adj.
Feigning piety or righteousness

Answer 4

It's not just your Jonah, a lot of Christian claim to be righteous but few of them are saintly!
You as an Atheist have noticed the good in Jonah, that is love.

Answer 5

Theres nothing wrong with partying and having fun. The problem is most people do not know how to drink and smoke without abusing it. If he can then thats great, but I do not necessarily agree with the fact that just because you drink and smoke means that you are living life. They are very strong drugs and you do not need them to have a good time. You can have a good time sober and it is better, but you will only know this if you party hard to begin with. If you can't stop doing something or do it everyday it is an addiction.

Answer 6

I appreciate your curiosity in learning about the deep values of life through your question. Religion does not mean that we should put on serious or Castor oil faces. God, to my knowledge is Joy , Pure joy. He will not relish worried men, weeping men around. He wants all to be happy and joyful in spite of the various circumstances. He will accept us in whichever condition we are. Hence do not think that God is serious person or religions made us serious. Out attitude in life is more relevant than what we have done. Be Happy and Joyful always and that is the way to God. nagarajan.

Answer 7

He sounds like a Mediterranean Christian of the Orthodox persuasion. Close to 70% of Greeks support Darwin even though more then 50% believe in god. However your friend is not a christian by any stretch of the imagination in the eyes of the Catholic Church and its children Protestants Quakers, etc. He will most definitely fry or freeze in hell

Answer 8

Your friend does not appear to profess christian faith if he is doing all this you have told us.Born again christians are free from all these things you have told us.Christians are not addicted to any drug and it is against Christian tenets.Christians are the light of the world and they should light the world for those without eyes like you to see.You are following a blind person who will lead you into bottomless pit.As you know those who follow the advice of the wicked,become wicked themselves.remember satan sometimes wears like an angel.How do you differentiate?Look at the character.

Answer 9

Moderate Christians are living a life which is explicitly condemned by the Bible. If you prefer a watered-down form of faith, you may as well not have faith at all. The bible says that he prefers you to be hot or cold, but if you are lukewarm he will "spit you out". Am I reading a different bible than the Christians?

/Atheist.

Answer 10

My friend, I am really, really pleased that your friend is a positive example to you.

However, if he is truly born again (you did not mention for how long), he will not keep on smoking or drinking, because the Holy Spirit in him will not allow him to keep feeling at peace with his actions. I smoked for 2 years after I got saved, and I even swore for a while after I got saved. But it did not stay that way my friend.

I would say that as long as he keeps clubbing to satisfy his own desires, his very salvation is at stake and he may slip back into his old ways very quickly.

I would say that he is playing with his salvation.

Answer 11

Maybe a lovely guy, but he's not a christian! To be a christian is to be sanctimonious, and downright nasty to boot! If you actually read the bible, the moral code expounded is vile. Many people ignore the nasty bits or concoct their own creed, which may be very caring and life affirming, but they shouldn't really call it christianity, it's giving an abhorrent faith a good name!