A dog training contradiction??

Question

Well, they say that if you have a problem training your puppy, then you should strictly crate train them. This means no outside crate activity except for eating and going potty.
They also say that "tie-outs" or keeping your dog outside all day because they run wild in the house, is not good. These kinds of dogs will go crazy in the house because they dont know how to act in the house.

Here is my point: Aren't the "tied out" dogs and the "strictly crate trained" dogs kinda the same? They both dont know how to act in the house whether it be running wild or going potty. If a crate trained dog only stays in its crate, when it finally gets out, it has no preconcieved notion to not eliminate there. Same as the tied out dog who is let into the house and runs wild because it does not know how to act. Therefore, is crate training really effective??does it cause bad behaviors cuz the dog is unable to walk around the house, and therefore doesnt know he or she shouldn't eliminate there?

As of right now i am strictly crate training my 7 month old yorkie pup upon many recomendations because of her stubborness with house training. is this making things worse?? What do you think??

For all the people say "get that dog away from her" I want all of you to hear this:
Crate training does not mean that the dog is in the crate until the end of its life!! It means that just until the dog can be trusted not to poop anywhere in the house, its to be crated. This is meant to be a quick process to train the dog. Anyone with half a brain would know that. I can assure you that i love my dog with all of my heart and only want to train her in the best possible way. Personally, I would love to meet face to face with CHINA and tell her what I think of her for her answer because it was completely rude, insensitive and unhelpful. This is Yahoo answers not Yahoo opinions. So China, get it straight, hun, because you sound so unprofessional and no one wants to hear your lousy opinion. As for the few answers that helped me, thanks. I now know how to better go about this. I will gate off a room in the house and let her roam so that she can start roaming. Thanks, again.

Answer 1

A crate is a great thing to keep your pup safe when you can't supervise her. You can't leave them crated or tied out all the time because they will never learn how to live in the house.

I have never heard anyone claim that they should be tied/crated all the time except when eating/pottying. That is stupid. Of course, there are so many clueless self proclaimed 'experts' out there...


China said - " I have 8 Shih Tzu that have full run in my home..They have never been in a crate other then when they are being groomed. "

For one thing, crates keep them safe when they are young or naughty and almost all breeders use crates and X-pens. What happens to your non crate trained dogs when they have to travel, if something should happen to you and they go to new homes, are injured and need total rest, etc. What do you do with a puppy, let it have the run of the house, potty and chew whatever it wants? Are you able to supervise a puppy 24/7?

BTW, dogs are DEN animals (even foofoo lap dogs) and many love their crates.


Zoe said - " Training children is much the same as training puppies"

LOL! Not so much, they are not human children. They learn and think differently. This thinking is at least partly responsible for our current dog problems, people do not understand that they are not humans in fur coats. How many hours have you spent managing large packs of dogs. How many dams have you watched raise her puppies? Dogs should be raised and treated as their mothers/pack leaders would.

And "Puppies like to run and play and follow their owners."

Of course they do, and they should. But when you cannot supervise them, they should be somewhere safe from trouble.

I HATE it when people answers questions and know little to nothing about the topic.

Break their spirit .... by being in a crate some....LMAO!!!!

Answer 2

My personal beliefe is that dogs should not be restricted permenantly all day, whether in a crate or tied out. If your dog is difficult to train then you need to find a suitable method that works. All restricitng a dog does is make them frustrated so they are actually more likely to misbehave when let out and hence make training considerably more difficult. I've had many different dogs of different breeds and I haven't really had a dog that was that difficult to house train. It's just a matter of being totally 100% consistant and really making sure that they can't make a mistake rather than trying to correct a mistake they have made.
Hence the advice that when you firat get your puppy then it needs to go out every hour day and night, immediately upon waing and after a feed. If you stick to this it will only take a couple of weeks to house train your dog.

Answer 3

Here is a crate training article that might answer some of your questions.

I crate train for a completely different reason than potty training. In training a dog everything is based on three actions;
#1 moving away from the handler
#2 remain stationary
#3 moving toward the handler
Without realizing what you have done, when you crate train a dog you have laid the foundation for all three actions.
When you say "kennel" and send the puppy into the crate, you have taught the dog to move away.
When you say "lay down and go to sleep" you have taught the dog to remain stationary.
When you open the crate and say "here" you have taught recall (moving toward)

Answer 4

i right now have three doggs one 4 and two puppys both about 5 months. my oldest dog i got when he was five weeks a=nd was pretty much house trained i got lucky. but the puppys have been a chore i'm working oncrate training both of them. but they are only in the crate when no one is home and at night time that is there room. they go in to eat with the door open and nap in there when guest are over, but they do that volentarily. they feel safe in their own space. one of my puppys is a rescued pup that was crated all the time befor i got her and was deathly afriad of the crate and now she plays in there on her own. it's the same thing with babys. you don't let them roam free when you are not watching them and when you go to bed you put them in a crib in their room. they would rather be with you in your bed but, if you let them you will have a 10 year old child sleeping with you and your husband. you just can't let a puppy roam with out supervision. as they get older them they can roam free just like and 8 year old child does need your eyes every second that an infant does. a puppy is a baby , treat the crate as their room

Answer 5

The crate isn't designed to be used as a prison. It is a training tool.

Yes, dogs kept in crates constantly do develop problems. They tend to be unruly when released from the crate, and you are correct, they don't know how to act in the house.

If you use the crate when the pup cannot be supervised, they do housebreak alot easier. Keep in mind a young pup will eliminate alot more than a grown dog, therefore, the you need to be aware of what the pup is doing and watch for basic signs that he/she needs to go out.

Rule(s) of thumb:
When a pup wakes up, they need to go out.
After a pup eats, they need to go out.
After 15-20 minutes of play, they need to go out.

If you take them out and they do not go to the bathroom, yes you should crate them. If they do go to the bathroom, they should be ok for a period of time. After 20-30 min start keeping a closer eye on them, especially if they're playing alot. Work on a little basic obedience, then back out.

If your crate is too large, they will mess in it. Crate size should be: height about 1" clearance when the dog is sitting down, length and width: dog should be able to stand, turn around and lay down comfortably. That's it!

Answer 6

Personally, I disagree with crate training. I've owned several dogs and have never crate trained. Some dogs take longer than others to housebreak. I have a fenced in backyard and when my dog would start to "go" in the house I would rush them outside and go out with them and then praise lavishly when they went to the bathroom. I find that it helps if you praise immediately upon them finishing eliminating outside. Also, I would take them out a couple of times during the night and do the same procedure. I didn't wait for them to "tell" me they had to go out at night. Then when they seem to be getting the hang of it I would reduce going out with them and praise them when they come back in the house. Keep cutting back a little at a time and they will eventually let you know when they have to go outside. This takes time but has worked for me with several dogs. I currently have 3 dogs with ages ranging from 6 years to 10 months.

Answer 7

i KNOW where you are coming from with the potty thing.... i have two yorkies a three yr old and a seven month old.... they can be STUBBORN little things. your best bet is to do like i do .... get baby gates and gate off the room that you are in and ONLY let them roam that room... as for the crate its ok to use when you have to leave them alone for a few hours but make sure they have paper to go on and something to lay on... my 3 yr old is housebroke IF i dont let her upstairs or she'll decide to potty up there but downstairs she's fine... my 7 month old on the other hand if i dont keep in gated in the immediate area he'll go into the other room and do his buisiness.... otherwise he'll go into the kitchen and use his papers (too cold here to let him out yet he's only 3 pounds) so he gets papers..... if you keep your pup near you limit it to one room till it learns that it cant go on the floor then gradually work up to two rooms and so forth it might work but like i said THEY ARE STUBBORN lol..... but loveable and cute...... and i dont believe in some peoples ideas of crate training it should only be used at night or if you have to leave for a little while if its more than two hours gate the pup into the kitchen or bathroom somewhere with no rug and put down papers........................ hope this helps ya.......... P.S. also tying a dog out all day IS just as bad as crating all day!! same difference

Answer 8

I believe that crate training is cruel and barbaric. Training children is much the same as training puppies. Who would ever think that locking a child in a crate would actually achieve any positive effects?

Dogs are said to be 'den' animals and they actually like to be locked up in a crate. What a load of crap! Puppies like to run and play and follow their owners. They love freedom the same as you and me. Of course they lie down and behave in a crate... well what else can they do for chrissake?

For positive toilet training without crating read this article
http://www.dogchatforum.com/toilet-training-puppy.htm

Answer 9

crating training is meant for when you cannot supervise the dog, it will not become housetrained living in a crate.

supervising means watching the pup in the house every single second if it attempts to potty in the house a stern verbal correction is given and you take the pup outside immediately and praise when they go.

Inorder to make sure the pup is not running all over the hjouse you can babygate the pup into the same room you are in , or put a leash on and tie to yourself to make supervising easier.

Answer 10

I don't know where you got your information but you receive totally wrong. I wish I wouldn't have read your question because I am really feeling sorry for your pets. The kind of life they must be having being in your care. The only thing I am going to tell you what to do, and no one is going to like it, but you need to find you dog a good home. What I see here if this dog stays with you , he will not have a chance at a happy life. You have already , by now , broke that dogs spirit.
There is nothing sadder than a dog's broken spirit. This you can see in their eyes. Someone needs to get these dogs off of you. This is so sad.

I will accept all the thumbs down on this question..But someone needs to save these dogs from her.

Let me add this ..I am really against crates for this reason. People are not using them for what it was intended to be use for. I have 8 Shih Tzu that have full run in my home..They have never been in a crate other then when they are being groomed.