To the unbelievers, "All men are created equal". Give evidence to why this is true.?

Question

Christians can answer this one. Can you do that same with a rational argument. I assume that you hold to the dictum "It is unreasonable or irrational to believe in x without sufficient evidence." --Hence your disregard to the Christian God.

The statement is not a descriptive one but rather a prescriptive one. The christian states that we are all made in the image of God. This is what separates us from all other creation. Hitler believed in the evolutionary conclusion one derives from survival of the fittest. He did not believe we were are created equal.

rickystt--
I didn't say Hitler believed in evolution but merely the conclusions of a worldview influenced by it. Hitler was influenced by Nietzsche who was then influenced by Darwin. You stated Hitler was a creationist. Please cite or quote a source on this and I will be willing to listen to it.
Second christianity never condoned slavery itself. Paul condoned obedience to civil authorities and slaves to their masters but never slavery itself. The OT concept of slavery was different than our american concept too.

Answer 1

The Declaration of Independence

Action of Second Continental Congress,
July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America.
WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyrants only.

He has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly Firmness his Invasions on the Rights of the People.

He has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and Convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries.

He has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance.

He has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pre-tended Offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government and enlarging its Boundaries, so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the same absolute Rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and destroyed the Lives of our People.

He is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy of the Head of a civilized Nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the Executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.

Nor have we been wanting in Attentions to our British Brethren. We have warned them from Time to Time of Attempts by their Legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and Magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the Ties of our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our Connections and Correspondence. They too have been deaf to the Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the Necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace, Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

Answer 2

As one answerer already pointed out, all men and women are *not* created equal. But that's not the point that was being made in the US Declaration of Independence...
The point was that all men and women (though it just says men, 'cause the guys at that time didn't think women were real people, just possessions) should be treated equally under the law, and have equal opportunities for their hard work to pay off. That's all.

Such a concept does not require proof -- as it's not a fact. It's an abstract concept by which we choose to run our country, and on which we choose to base our laws. That it's a good concept *is* shown by evidence, as it has in general helped us build a system of law that treats (nearly) everyone fairly and retains basic human rights.

As an abstract concept, it's a great idea. As a fact, it fails miserably. Do you really think a child born as the 10th child to a starving family in Bangladesh is "equal" to one born to a billionaire family in the US? The first has little or no chance of getting a good education, of overcoming poverty, and of living up to its full potential. The latter will get pretty much every opportunity available handed to them with no struggle or effort required.
Those of us who believe in true equality for all humanity want to provide more opportunity for the former -- to give them the chance to succeed based on their hard work and effort. From what I often see here, it appears that many christians would only do so if the poor kid converted to their religion...sad.

Oh, and by the way -- I can't disregard something that doesn't exist, that's just silly!

Peace.

Answer 3

How is it true? If God created everyone as 'equal', then why are there so many differences -- retarded people, geniuses, good athletes, people with birth defects, the different races, etc.? I don't believe that all men are created equal -- the evidence shows that it's not true! However, the SENTIMENT behind the statement is that all sentient beings (and we're aware only of humans at this point) deserve EQUAL rights because of the realization that there is ONE common denominator: that sentient beings all have the same basic thought system which means that rights afforded to one group but restricted from others will result in suffering. Given an understanding of the basic dynamics of the human psyche, we then realize that equal treatment is the only moral choice.

Answer 4

That's a poetic phrase that presumes the existence of a creator. I'm not against the use of poetic expression except when it results in logical fallacies like the one you are trying to pull off.

All this expression really means is that society should strive to not become a class-based system where a person's potential is capped at the level they are born into. Each person should have an equal chance in life.

The evidence for this is simply that societies that don't strive to have this kind of equality are much less successful than those societies that do. The additional evidence is that we all benefit from fairness and justice. Neither of these forms of evidence requires belief in the existence of any gods.

Answer 5

Your question doesn't make sense, but even with logic aside, the Christian God is the most twisted creation, along with the other Abrahamic religions, that the human mind has ever brought into existence.

Going further, many people, though not myself, could believe if there was no evidence, it is the heaps of evidence against the Old Testament that get many. This is not just guesses, we know now with 100% certainty regarding many areas of the Old Testament that if they are taken literally, they could not and did not happen.


Our morality has nothing to do with religion, there was morality towards others long before the Old Testament was written, and before the many religions that preceded it.

Hope this was along the lines of what you are looking for.

Answer 6

Because we say so, basically. (It's called a "social contract")

Let it be noted that you haven't defined "equal." [See edit.] We obviously aren't all alike, so the non-Christian credited with the phrase (Thomas Jefferson) must have meant something else. I take it to mean that as human persons, we are worthy of equal rights. (I also take the liberty of including women.) I freely confess to not having any evidence for this claim. With all due respect for Thomas Jefferson, it is *not* self evident, and you are not unjustified in asking why it's true.

However, i contend that there is no inconsistency here. You addressed all unbelievers, so i will clarify that i'm of the skeptical atheist variety. As you know, atheists typically do not assign intrinsic values to anything--including people. I believe that values, including a person's "worthiness," are a purely human invention. I decline to provide evidence because i don't consider Jefferson's claim to be factual; i merely consider it to be good social policy.

Of course i'm not letting myself off that easily. ;-) The alert Christian will notice that i *have* just made a claim--namely, that equal rights is good social policy--and will rightfully demand evidence. OK, well, a stratified society is an unstable society. The have-nots will eventually agitate for justice, resulting in uncontrollable crime, a breakdown in social order, government repression, and quite possibly armed insurrection. The evidence is legion. The misery that has been the lot of feudal civilizations. Slave revolts, and the fear of revolts instilled in slave holders. (It is true that a slave holder is himself a slave!) The War Between the States--still the single most traumatic event in USA history. Marxist and Islamic revolutions--however misguided they are, they are rooted in local injustice.

Plus, it just "feels" fair. This comes from the ethic of reciprocity--one expression of which you know as the Golden Rule.

I'm puzzled about your claim about Christians, though, since your Bible enthusiastically endorses slavery, and was used for centuries to justify it. Can you enlighten us with the Christian justification to "All men are created equal"? I'm happy you all came around and everything but i'd just like to know why your spiritual forebears changed their minds.


I see you made the same clarification that i did during the hour it took for this #$!&%g so-called DSL line to go through. One correction, though: Hitler did not believe evolution; he was a Christian creationist who used his twisted view of God's will to justify racial segregation. It's often said that he subscribed to Social Darwinism. I don't know whether or not that's true, but you should be aware that Social Darwinism is a misnomer that has nothing to do with Darwin or the science of evolution.

Natural selection, to which you allude, is a scientific theory; and science is descriptive, not prescriptive (sorry). Science never tells us what to do; it only explains. "Survival of the fittest" doesn't tell us to exterminate the Jewish people any more than the theory of gravity tells us to throw you off a bridge.

(Forget the TV documentary. It came from an apologetics ministry, and apologetics ministries wouldn't know a fact if it introduced itself.)

Answer 7

I'd like to know the Christian argument.

Frankly, I don't believe that all men are created equal. Someone born into poverty has a lesser standing than a person who is born into a wealthy household. However, in another regard, these two people may have the capablities to do the same things and act in similar ways.

Answer 8

Well, we aren't "created." So a more accurate phrase would be: "All people are equal." But that doesn't really work either, does it? I mean, we can't all do the same things. I'm wretched at trigonometry, for example. However, we can say: "All people should have equal rights and responsibilities." That is true. Why? Because we have decided, as a society, that it is true--there is no just way to diminish the rights of one person or another. We all should have equal access to rights, and we should all have equal responsibilities as much as our abilities allow. It is true because we as a society have decided so.

Answer 9

All men (and women) are not created equal. That's just absurd. I was born with autism. Whether you see that as an asset or a disadvantage is irrelevant (I claim asset).. It is certainly true that I am not equal.

It is irrational to believe without evidence. It is probably not irrational to DISbelieve without evidence, although one would certainly have to be cautious in ascertaining that there was no evidence.

Answer 10

To the atheist, this is an ideal or principle toward which to strive, not something innately demonstrable. Society runs most efficiently if all are free to achieve their goals, without discrimination for any invalid reason.

Answer 11

I don't think that's true. Think about it, poor people will never be equal to rich people, ugly people and pretty people will never be equal, I don't mean to be rude, shallow, or heartless, I'm being honest. I have been poor, I am ugly, and I am alone. I will never be equal in the eyes of others... and that's just how it is. Really think about it, would you call yourself equal to a mass murderer? Would you call yourself equal to a crazy stalker? Or even a homeless little girl? Maybe a rich wealthy girl? No, b/c we are all different, we aren't equal... And I'm sorry that we aren't... but we just aren't.

Please, what is YOUR definition of equal?