Atheist statement of faith?

Question

'It isn't just that I don't believe in God and, naturally, hope that I'm right in my belief. It's that I hope there is no God! I don't want there to be a God; I don't want the universe to be like that.'

Isn't hope the result of faith? I don't see any argument around this being a statement of faith.

Friend , what say you?

from Thomas Nagel's book "The Last Word" -

---
some good points. why do some of you folks define atheism for everyone?

Also, I am not saying all atheists believe as Nagel says that he does. I am pointing out a prominant philosopher who is an atheist, making a statement which by most peoples account would be considered in line with a statement of faith.

Why is it so difficult to accept that your un-belief requires some faith? Your position cannot be conclusively proved?

Answer 1

yes becoming an atheist takes about as much faith as believing in god. you cant say for sure there isnt a god but you dont believe there is one. just like believers cant say for sure there is a god but they believe there is one. you cant prove or disprove gods existance so what ever you believe is based on personal faith

Answer 2

Uh, that ISN'T my position (you end one of your Additionals -- which I can't see in this screen -- "why can't you admit your view is based on faith"). I have no reason to admit any such silly thing. I don't buy what the quote says.

My position is not based on faith.

Actually, in response to the quote, in some ways, the religious view would be better -- not better to falsely believe in -- I mean, it would mean the universe was ultimately just. That is, I would love it if people who caused suffering in this life suffered horrific torment in the next.

And people who tried to be human beings, especially those who got a rotten deal in this life, had a good after-life.

But, since there's no reason to believe in any of that, and lots of reason to believe otherwise, I'll go with evidence and reason -- not mere ungrounded faith.

And, no, hope isn't the result of faith.

I hope humans will eventually get a clue and make this world what it could and should be: fit for humans and other critters to live in.

That hope is not founded on faith -- it's just something that would be better than what we have, now. I'd LIKE it to happen. No faith involved.

Assuming you aren't taking the quote out of context (which I don't know, as I don't think I've ever read Nagel), all I can say is, it's not the first time a philosopher wrote a bunch o' hooey.

Edit: My bad! I did read something of Nagel's once; thought it was a bunch of hooey. He's superficial in his thinking, and, well, clueless -- like that quote you open with.

Why would he HOPE there wasn't a god?

Answer 3

hope [hohp]
1. the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best
2. to believe, desire, or trust
3. to feel that something desired may happen

faith [feyth]
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing
2. belief that is not based on proof:

See... hope and faith are NOT the same. Hope is wanting something to happen, maybe even thinking it's possible. Faith is believing that it WILL definitely happen, or IS definitely real, without being able to see it, prove it, etc. You're wrong. But I understand that it's not all your fault. You have been taught not to use your own brain by a religion that relies upon you being uninformed.

Answer 4

Logic and reasoning... What high sounding words. I just don't understand the "logic and reasoning" in even thinking that life came from lifelessness. Or how the time problem in evolution are logically and reasonable handled. There isn't enough time for the small rodent like mammals left after the last extinguishing event to bring them to the size and variety of the mammals the roamed the earth during the last major ice age.
Or the fact that viruses have been known to man for approximately the last 200 years. During that time there have been billions of generations, yet never has a virus jumped species. Yes the have varied but they remain viruses. These are three major problems to your Logic and reasoning... Jim

Answer 5

I haven't read Nagel but two things should be said.
First, hope is not faith they are two different things. You can hope for something while having no faith in it. I hope I will have a good dinner tonight.
Second, what Nagel says is not untrue for me but I also happen to be highly confident there is no god.

Answer 6

It may be Thomas Nagel's statement, but it is not mine.

I have no faith or belief at all. I either know a thing or I do not know a thing, based on evidence or logic, and logic leads me to know for a fact that there is no deity.

----------------

Actually, my conclusion can be definately proved. It's not a faith issue.

Answer 7

"Faith [feyth]: belief that is not based on proof"

"Hope [hohp]: the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best"

That argument is a stretch at best... Because I "hope" George Bush is just a bad dream, does not me I believe it is...

Quite simply, faith is based on belief. Hope is despite belief.

Answer 8

Thomas Nagel's statement is a complete oxymoron. Atheism is the disbelief in any deities.

Answer 9

Hope is irrelevant, the facts, or lack of any base concerning the creationist side of the argument, dictate that their is no deity.

Anyone can make up any random deities, and have them followed by a large portion of the population. It has happened many times before contemporary religions, and is still happening today.

Until you can at least form a semi-credible argument, then believing in random thoughts is delusional.

Answer 10

I am an atheist because I KNOW there is no god(s). It is not a question of faith, or belief, or wishing.