morality and religion?

Question

is something moral because god says so or does moraltiy exist anyway?

here is an example... god appears to you in dream and asks you to murder an innocent child....

2 possible answers to this

the first is that god would never ask you to do something immoral.... obviously thats based on your definition of morality not his (so god is irrelevant here)

secondly if what god says is moral!!!... then how could it ever moral be to kill a child (so god is irrelevant here)

either example renders morality a human construct where god plays no part

agree ?

i think some people are missing the point.. saying that it couldnt be god.... that was my first suggestion... it couldnt be god because he would never ask me to do something immoral.... yes by your definition of morality not his....

the whole point of this example is that either way morality is a human concept.... except for those crazy who think that if god told them to kill an innocent child that would be moral... are you nuts? kill an innocent child because of a dream... what are you crazy?

and how could you ever be sure that it was god telling you that....

think of all the nutballs who have murdered and said that god told them to....

Answer 1

I agree with you. god commanded someone in the old testament to kill their son. Apparently they were going to do it too and then God showed himself and told the guy that he passed the test because he was prepared to kill his son as commanded by god. god them provided them with a lamb to sacrifice instead - what a warped, twisted head-game to play on someone - sicko!!! I think humans have an understanding of what is moral, without guidance from God.
Abraham, that's the guy - what a sucker!

Answer 2

Yes, given an imperative with moral implications, there remains a moral choice as to whether it should be obeyed.

At one extreme, yes, if God orders it, then it should be done, even if it conflicts with personal moral sensibility. That would be taken as understanding the fallibility of human moral sense compared to the divine one.
"As the heavens are higher than earth, so are my thoughts higher than your thoughts" (Hosea)
In this belief conscience (thus clearly flawed) should be overrruled. "I was only obeying orders"
would be not a defence, but a proud statement.

But best be sure that was the genine intent of the command, and of its origin. Yes, Peter Sutcliffe did claim that God had told him to murder prostitutes.

Alternately human conscience is taken as an absolute guide. "Sorry, God you're wrong." Hmm... So that has problems too, and not just theological ones.
Not least that of difference on "right" between individuals (pick any of the great intractable rows...)

But note, this occurs without reference to a deity in the play between morality and the law.
Although there is usually a general accord it is not difficult to find instances where things are held (by some) to be legal but immoral, and illegal but moral.
The interplay between law and morality on slavery might give a range of historic examples.
At one point:
To assist runaway slaves was illegal but moral?
To keep slaves was legal but immoral?

Answer 3

God did say "Thou shall not kill" so I guess that means He set a moral standard. Holding the dream against God's standard I'd say the dream wasn't of God.

Answer 4

if someone writes god wants you too murder are you doing gods will or the will of the person that claims to know the unknowable will of a speechless imaginary god or are you actually personally responsible in spite of other men's claims
god is irrelevant as usually as always it's just your imagination running away with you ....la! life should always take precedence not death even if a false god tells you other wise you should use your head not your Nazi mentality!

Answer 5

I would tend to agree in the part morality is by nature.

However, some people will lose all their moral without god.

Answer 6

Anything god decrees is moral. God did this to isaac to test his faith in him. After some struggle he would have but god didn't make him because he is cool like that.


oops i accidently put isaac instead of abrahalm silly me

Answer 7

Actually God told Abraham to do just that-- in fact, it was Abraham's own son, Isaac, who was to be the sacrifice.

Answer 8

No, God is never irrelevant.

Answer 9

abraham certainly thought it was morally right. god in old testament was a vicious sadist.

Answer 10

that wasn't God in your dream,,,sounds more like a wolf in sheeps clothing