Tips are calculated before or after tax?

Question

Today I had the worse experience dining out.

The server was doing a ok job. So we just left him about 15% tip..which I thought was fair. (I know some people tip 20% or more but we were just students who cant afford to be very generous.) Anyway, while we stepped out of the restaruant, the server stopped us and said we didn't give enough tips. I told him that I gave him 15% pre-tax amount tip. He insisted it's 15% of grand total and said that "in America" tips are 15% of total amount includ tax. Ok, we are a bunch of foreign students, not Americans. However, we have being staying here for few years. It is not like we want to be cheap. We just thought, 15% should be added from the total amount of food and beverage but not the amount with tax. Cuz state tax is added by the government and it should have nothing to do with the restaruant. Correct me if I am wrong

What made me feel the worse was that he kept saying "in America" ..We were kind of hurt by that.

Answer 1

Calculating the tip to a percentage exact to the penny is considered a bit rude. It destroys the illusion that the tip is a "reward for service" turning it into a mechanical function which they were going to get no matter what and the quality of service had nothing to do with it. It is all perception anyway since the best service I've had has come from places in foreign countries where the service is included in the price.

(I can't even imagine a waiter in this country taking food from the table, rewarming it, and returning it to us ... without ANYONE EVEN ASKING, or serving part of a meal and keeping the rest covered and warm by side only to serve each person more as they needed. Now that really is service. Not this take a drink order, take a food order, let others deliver it, cruise by once to ask if everything is ok, usually before one can even put a bite in their mouths and then disappear for the rest of the night till it is time to get paid.)

15% on the pre-tax amount is the standardly defined rule, though.

However tipping 15% post tax only adds another 1-1.5% depending on the tax rate.

I have seen many places that now suggest 18%, but I'm not sure if that is meant to be pre or post tax?.

It is also common to round the tip up to the nearest dollar or make the total bill an even amount.

Also if the bill is very small or the restaurant is very inexpensive I feel the service deserves a higher percentage reward.

One thing that gives me a real problem is when I buy wine by the bottle. (Drinks bought by the glass deserve the full tip). Most resaurants mark the bottle up to triple or more its retail value already and I can often pay more for wine than the meal. It is also usually the case that the waiter had no wine knowledge and all they did was bring a bottle and some glasses and pull the cork. In this case I never know what to do. Do I still tip 15% on everything or just for the food and a much smaller amount for the wine, and if so does the waiter think I'm stiffing them since I'm only tipping 8%-10% in total? I'm told that I should only tip the full amount for the food ... but somehow I never feel right doing that.




There was this one place that my friends and I would regularly go when we were in college. It was a sandwich place with a cafe/dner feel and great cakes. A revolving group of us went there at least once a week. We all always tipped as we should. Then one day for whatever reason the manager just added the tip to the bill and presented it to us. He or she (I don't remember which it was a long time ago) had the right to do it but had never done that before. (I think we divided the total added tip again, allocated each persons share ... and the numbers never worked ... then we had to go back and forth ... I may even have personally pocketed some extra money in the deal as I usually put the bill on my charge card.) Then we realized what the manager had done!

After much angry discussion with the manager we paid it, but we were so upset that none of us or any of our extended group EVER went there again! The irony was that we usually tipped higher than what had been added. The tragedy for them was the loss of many good customers by one greedy act.

Answer 2

To play devil's advocate for the server:
The "In America" comment was rude, yes. However, this kind of frustration builds up after years of serving where people from other countries (who may not be savvy to America's tipping policy) don't tip well at all. I worked in LA, where about a third of my tables were from other countries (British, Chinese, Mexican, etc.) and about 80% of the time I would get less than 10% tips from them, when Americans tipped me 20% on average. It makes you grumpy when you get a table of foreign people. It's not being racist, it's just basing it on experience.

Second, people have started tipping on the total (including tax) so much that more and more restaurants have their servers "tip out" (give a portion of your tips to the bartenders, bussers, even cooks) based on TOTAL SALES including taxes. A 15% tip is bad enough without it being pre-tax.

And about you being college students who can't afford to be generous, well there's a saying that servers have:
If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out.

Not to be mean, but I guarantee this is what your server was thinking. He might have had a bad day, too, and your table was the last straw. These things happen.

And these other answers saying that 15% is a perfectly good tip, they obviously don't know how the restaurant industry works. For example, "AB"'s answer up there. It's ridiculous. If she has ever gone to the same restaurant twice after tipping the way she's explaining, she's lucky if multiple servers haven't sneezed in her food by now. Not tipping on alcohol drinks??? Of course you're supposed to!

Take it from me, an actual server, who can't pay his college tuition if he gets 15% tips all day, and whose service to his tables is worth the 5 to 10 bucks on the average bill.

Answer 3

I say before taxes what do you do in places and there are some where there is no tax on food. Tax is what is going to the government. I tip about 15% for average service and in my state tax is 7.5% i just double the tax and round up to the next dollar and that is my tip. I never do any calculations

Answer 4

It is different for some people. I tip on the total of the bill, not the pre tax amount, and I always have. Some people do not feel that way, but I think that they should tip on the total not the pre tax amount.

The server should not have done that to you, it was a crappy thing for him to do, I work as a server, and i have people tip on the pre tax amount that are not foreign, but that fact does not, and should not even matter.

Answer 5

What a moron. You should have talked to the manager and had his a** fired. Simply because good retaurants shouldn't have people that stupid working for them.
The guy risked his job for what ? a half a buck ?
You had a $50.00 tab w/ o tax
15% tip is $7.50
tax @ 8 % = $4.00 *.15 = $.60
You should go back there and tell the manager if it was me i would want to know.
good luck

Answer 6

That was very rude of the server to do that. You can tip 15% really however you want.
I tend to double what the tax is and that is the tip.
Example: $25.00 total bill
$1.90 Tax

$1.90 x 2 = tip

Also, when you are drinking alcohol at the dining table, you dont tend to include that tip in that part at all.

Answer 7

15% is a fair tip and your server was being an ***. The reference to "in America" could actually be construed as deragatory and discriminatory. It would have been amusing to see you turn around and explain that "in America" you can get sued by making those types of comments and would that be worth his running his pie hole about a tip?

Answer 8

This waiter was a slime,trying to shame you into giving more money. Probably because he thought you were foreigners, he thought he could fool you. I hope you did not listen to him.
The correct amount is 15% of the pre-tax bill.

Answer 9

I agree...you shouldn't have to tip on taxes. He just wanted a bigger tip. On behalf of us Americans I apologize for his behavior. He was clearly trying to take advantage of you. It's very rude on his part to come out of the restaurant at all and comment on your tip. Truly, "In America" people like him are looked down upon. Shame on him. 15% is perfectly fair for average service.

Answer 10

UNBELEIVABLE! I have managed restaurants for the last 15 years. and that idiot was way out of line! tips defined means "To Insure Proper Service" For one there is NO LAW that says you have to tip at all. And it is 15% before taxes. and lastly, I would of fired that idiot on the spot if he worked for me.