Can an atheist justify their position without using circular reasoning.?

Question

Give evidence to your position. What is your starting point in your philosophy that you can justify outside of yourself, i.e. without an initial non provable belief.

I am referring to a positive atheist not a negative atheist. Can one prove a negative?

Answer 1

There is no valid reason to believe that any gods exist.
Therefore the only valid position is not to believe that they exist.
Anything else would be unjustified.

All beliefs are based on non-provable beliefs (axioms). I have an axiom which I'm sure no sane person would dispute: That the order and complexity that we see around us in the natural universe, and particularly in the intricate structure and functions of living organisms, could not possibly just exist fully formed, with no cause, no origin, no precursor of any sort. I can't *prove* that this is the case, but it seems inconceivable to me that anyone would dispute it.

So, the logical consequence of accepting this axiom is that, for the very same reason, it's not possible that the order and complexity of the universe is sourced in an intelligent deity who designed and made the universe and *himself* exists fully formed with no cause, no origin, no precursor of any sort. I don't think any reasonable person would dispute the axiom presented here, and acceptance of the axiom leads to an indisputable proof of the non-existence of an intelligent creator.

Anyone who (against all reason) asserted that the order and complexity we see in the universe *could* indeed exist fully formed with no cause and no origin, in order thereby to save the concept of an uncaused intelligent designer, would find that they had invalidated said designer by making him redundant - i.e. if the order and complexity of the universe could just exist fully formed and uncaused then it would not need (in fact, could not possibly have) a designer to cause it to exist.

Either way, the concept of a creator is invalidated.

Answer 2

No, from the answers I've seen already. This is not a question for simple minded people who don't want the challenge because in the end all you will get is circular reasoning. But I know you and know how you get people to give their uneducated answer. But at the same time it forces them to think with whatever part of their brain that is capable of doing so. I love your questions. I am not an atheist so I won't give my imput on the question.

Answer 3

Work with me on this. I'm sure you remember your plane geometry. You may recall there were a curious set of concepts called "'axioms." Remember those? Right! those were the little guys that you never had to "prove." I'm going to assume you didn't tell your teacher that he/she was guilty of "circular reasoning" when you were required to prove a congruence theorem.

Well something very similar to that is at work here. Trust me, there are logical proposals that are OK to "assume." For example, let us (gently) introduce the issue of evidence into the polemic. Would you see it as "justifiable" for a person to assume that X is real just because a great many of his friends say X is real? I'm going to guess that in the case of most Xisms, you wouldn't begrudge our subject a wee bit of an appetite for something like evidence. I'm even betting you'd think him quite the fool if he came to convert to Xism on the word of his cohorts.

Lastly, I want you to take a close look at what your wrote
Did you notice that if you substituted "theist" for "atheist," you would arrive at exactly the same (apparent) contradiction?

Answer 4

Atheism is the lack of belief in god(s). There's simply no evidence, no positive position and therefore no way to prove anything. Those needing proof, need it for the existence of something, not the absence.

Thus if you believe in something, the burden of proof is on you, as claimant.

Answer 5

Atheism is grounded on the existence of empirical evidence, which is outside of oneself. There is no evidence for dragons, so the default position is to be an a-dragonist. There is no evidence for leprechauns, so the default position is to be an a-leprechaunist. There is no evidence for god, so the default position... et cetera. The position always leaves open the possibility of the introduction of evidence at a later stage, because as you'll often hear atheists say, you can't prove a negative (and nor should one be expected to).

Providing evidence for god is your job. Over to you.

Answer 6

There is no evidence that there is a god. No evidence essentially means that someone made it up. It is not reasonable to believe in things without any evidence. You would be stuck with every ridiculous thing that human imagination could come up with.

Not believing in god is the same as not believing in Zeus, Odin, Santa, the Tooth Faerie, and all the thousands of others since the evidence is exactly the same. I would be no less surprised if someone found evidence of Bacchus than I would be if they found evidence of your god.

Answer 7

I thought circular reasoning usually involved 'the book'? My reasoning has never involved a book, books aren't magic.

I have no need to justify anything. To put it bluntly, any person who actually thinks there is some magical being floating around out there in space that controls all must be nuts.

Answer 8

heres what i CAN give you.

your god is a lie made up by a man.

no one can prove or disprove the existance of a god and in fact there is significant evience that some part of you lives on after death in the form of EVP's and near death exxperiences and other things. So I am not saying that something beyond our understanding is not happening in this world.

what i am FIRMLY and CONCRETELY and with the most sincere passion GRABING AHOLD OF YOU AND SHAKING YOU and telling you is that YOUR GOD IS A LIE! read your book. go read your book and come back and tell me that its not a ridicolous load of crap. be honest with yourself and that is your first step in escaping from the mind trap of religion. the CULT, believe it or not you ARE in a cult, the cult of religion.

i believe there is definatly soething going on in the world but the more minds that are tied up and held captive by religion the less chance we have of ever understanding what is truly happening.

your god is a lie.

Answer 9

Only to the extent that you can justify not believing in Zeus without circular reasoning.

Answer 10

Can you justify your postion without using "circular reasoning"? You have NO proof God is real.

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