Why are NHS nurses so disgracefully incompetent?

Question

Can anyone please try and explain how a 42 year old stroke victim be left without food for 26 days on a hospital ward? After 26 days, he died!

I have also seen this type of negligence and neglect with my own eyes.

Nurses? I would not trust them to care for a pet, let alone a member of my family.

If a member of your family needs to stay in an NHS hospital. Make sure you arrange time off work and go in and look after them yourself. Otherwise you have no idea what might happen.

Genralise? Hmmmm well maybe. But then I keep hearing of cases like this and everytime I have been around hospitals (lots as I had a mother with Cancer and a father having a bypass) I see the very samething with my own eyes. Had I not interviend and fed my mother twice a day should would have been in real trouble. Where were the Nurses? Sitting in the office chatting most of the time.

NOT THE NORM??? I disagree. It may not be yet, but its not far off.

What a lot of nonsense. Who within a hospital as a duty of care to patients if it’s not the nurses? Having all the excuses in the world does not help the poor patient lying there depending on these people for life. CRAZY!!!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/12032007/397/learning-disability-deaths-inquiry-0.html

Answer 1

I think they are rubbish too, last time I went to a hospital I was shocked to see the nurses wandering about with folded arms, hanging around in an office talking about last nights Eastenders etc. This went on for 2 hours, there was no sense of urgency in anything they did, I was tempted to say something but didn't want to embarrass my GF

Answer 2

Hi,

as I now live in Spain I had not heard of this case, so cannot comment directly about it, but there are a couple of scenarios that occur to me that could explain and possible answer your question.

I am assuming that the stroke victim had been placed in a private room away from the daily bustle of an open ward? It seems to me entirely possible that the original 'neglect' came about by a doctor ordering the patient to have 'nil by mouth' and that, as with many victims of stroke there was no immediate treatment that could be administered by the nurses. The facts being that the nurses just did not know the patient was there.

If that was the case, then the 'fault' should lie with the doctor and not the nurses. In the same way, some years ago in a retired persons' refuge near Scarborough a lady died in her chair and was ignored by all the other 'self-help' occupants of the shelter until she began to rot and the smell caused an investigation, resulting in her death (which had occurred at least two weeks previously) being discovered.

None of the other residents (her friends!) even thought to check on this lady who appeared 'asleep' in her chair. So nurses not knowing about a person in a closed private room could be forgiven.

Nurses in the NHS are required to complete a strict period of training and qualification and I think it would be wrong to call them all incompetent.

However, to stray a little from your obviously deeply felt attitude towards nurses and the NHS in general...what about the relatives, friends, etc. of this man?

Did no-one bother to visit? The first visit to him would have ascertained his whereabouts and treatment etc., would have been ongoing from then.

Here in Spain, when a person goes into hospital his family is given the opportunity to stay with him. A reclining (though very uncomfortable) chair is available for sleeping and there is a bathroom in the small ward.

The wife (if the patient is a man, is expected to wash, help feed and to fetch and carry for the patient. This system works well enough because the people here are used to it, as are the nurses.

Nurses in the UK are expected to do all the fetching, carrying, cleaning, bathing, feeding etc. as well as all the medical stuff, such as changing dressings, administering drugs, giving injections, etc. This is an immense responsibility and it is not surprising that lamentable incidents like the one you describe may occur. Nurses are human.

There isn't really any valid excuse for the apparent neglect of this stroke victim, but I find it hard to just lay the blame at the feet of the nurses.

Yes, it was lamentable, it will never (I'm pretty sure) happen again in the same way once the 'fault' has been fairly apportioned, so something good has come from it.

You claim you have seen 'this type of negligence and neglect' with your own eyes.

If that is true, what did you do about it? Did you draw anyone's attention to it? Did you report the incident to the authorities so they could have prevented further cases? (Maybe even the one the stroke victim suffered?)

Generalisations are always dangerous. I no longer have to use NHS hospitals, though my health it still far from perfect, but I have had a number of occasions to need their skills and expertise and I am alive today only because of their dedication and care.

Yes-I have seen examples of nurses (and doctors and ancillary staff) 'shooting the breeze' over slack periods and I've seen examples of nurses who, quite clearly, were in the wrong job, but only a few-and I'm sure you could see examples of misfits in every job from shop assistants through waitresses to motor mechanics and 'bus drivers who were so unhappy in their work that it showed.

But please do no generalise to the extent you have. It is unfair to the vast majority of nurses who do care, and the advice about the need for family care when in any NHS hospital is biased and totally unecessary.

The example of neglect you cite IS deplorable, but please wait until the blame is apportioned after the investigation, which WILL happen.

Keep well (you never know what may happen if you need a nurse, do you?)

Cheers,

BobSpain

Answer 3

Have you got a link for this story? I would very much like to see ALL the facts
OK I read the story, still doesnt give all the facts though.
The guy had learning disabilities, he probably needed specialist LD nurses, of which there arent many especially in a general hospital.
We dont know whether he was just not fed or actually refused food, if he refused theres not much anyone can do without a court order to force feed him through a tube. Anyway nurses are NOT the only staff in hospitals, doctors, physios HCAs are also staff why not blame them also.
I do agree that this is awful though but I dont agree that this is the norm.
The news NEVER covers stories of the excellent work (most) NHS staff carry out every minute of every day.

Answer 4

The situation you talk about is tragic. That should never happen, and those responsible - nurses, doctors, nutritionists and any other NHS staff involved should be held accountable and disciplined as appropriate.

HOWEVER - this is NOT the norm and the majority of patients are given very good care. I was in hospital for nine months seven years ago - I was unable to eat, wash, dress, even talk sometimes but the standard of nursing care I received from NHS nurses, doctors and other health professionals was excellent.

I find it very hard to believe that in 26 days, that man was not seen by a doctor or nutritionist who could see he was starving. If it is true, then something went very wrong. I'd be interested to know the circumstances surrounding that case because there has to be more to it than that.

By making the type of statement you just have, you are undermining the NHS staff who do work hard to give patients the very best of care that they can.

Answer 5

You are a disgrace. You tar us all with the same brush. Most of us do our job because of the caring involved.

How dare you say every nurse is a disgrace???? You may have experienced some bad care but you cannot turn around and say we are all the same and that we all starve our patients and neglect them.

If only you could talk to the patients who I care for (all terminally ill and some dying) you will see that the care they recieve is beyond their expectations.

That is a disgusting and unthoughtful generalisation about us, and im sure a lot of nurses will agree that people like you make our jobs more difficult and it is also comments like that, that dishearten us in our jobs and question what is the point if everyone has these assumptions.

Im sure if you needed to go into hospital and needed nursing care you would be grateful to recieve it.

You should be ashamed of yourself for making such accusations. Slanderous.

Answer 6

I feel that you are being hugely unfair to tar all Nurses with the same brush... it certainly sounds as if the Nurses in the case you describe were negligent, however what about the Consultants who have overall responsibility for the patient - surely they should have been aware of the situation.

I have (what I consider to be) a vast amount of experience with the Health Service - both professionally and personally - I have found Nurses to be amongst the most professional and caring people I have encountered.

They are expected to work long hours, unsociable shifts and are not sufficiently financially rewarded.

Is it any wonder that there is a shortage of qualified Nurses in this country when people like you are so quick to criticise?

Answer 7

sadly from personal experinace it is true some nurses are not fit for the purpose.
i had surgery a few years ago and was unable to use my arms properly to feed myself. I was too proud to ask for help to eat, so if my parents had not been in to see me at visiting time then i would not have eaten.
the problem is that the nhs wards are often very busy with too few nurses to do the job properly. they are often run ragged. the only time they get a break themselves is often during the patients meal times.
it is time to CUT the pay surgeons get and re-ditribute that in the form of employing MORE nursing staff especially at meal times to watch patients carefully. if a patient is not eating then the staff should be bound by rules of the job to go over and help the patient to eat.
Remember no one like to be helped to eat. sadly though when in hospital we should all remember to swallow our pride and ask for help. if the nursing staff are not asked they often will not offer to help. this according to some of the staff i spoke to was generally down to some patients getting physically and verbally abusive when offered help.

in the main i should say that in general and in my experiance the good nurses out way the bad ones ten fold. I had great care when i was in hospital last by the nurses. it was the surgeons that let me down.
I remember the last time i was in hospital two nurses were arguing over who was going to remove my staples from my wounds. They both at my suggestion ended up sharing the job.
as i said the nursing care was great last time i was in hospital.

I'm sorry that the questioner had such a terrible experiance but the points raised are not common place. If the nursing staff were not made aware of the fact that a person was not eating (such as not in the patients chart) how could they possibly know. Remember too that in a lot of cases hospitals employ temporary or agency staff and nursing staff can get moved from ward to ward on a daily basis so no two nurses may have seen this patient twice making it difficult to spot that the guy was not eating or able to help himself eat.
If the family raised the point to the ward sister/ manager and it was not put in the notes or on the bed clearly so that the staff knew he needed help to eat. This is unforgivable.

if this was not raised then while tragic the weight loss may have been seen as part of the problem the patient had and not as a result of him not eating. which is more the doctors mis diagnosis than a nursing issue.

food intake should be closely monitored and recorded in a patients chart (medical record). and if someone has not finished eating by the time the kitchen staff come to collect the plates it should be noted the patient has not eaten and a nurse should automatically start helping the patient to finish eating ALL the meal. if a patient refuses the help it should be noted in the chart. and the patients family and visitors should be made aware of the fact. that way may be the family can try and get them to eat, if the family can not get the patient to eat, then sadly there is little else that could or should be done short of force feeding by a feeding tube.

but it may be that the patient needs mental health help and may be suicidal (depressed). and so it may be impossible to help them and to be honest if someone wants to die what right do any of us have to stop them?
absolutely no right in my opinion.

Answer 8

I think the NHS nurses are the best, the care is outstanding - I recently went to a private hospital and had a 7night stay there - the food any everything was good but the after care isn't as good as the NHS - in an NHS hospital they have like thousands of patients to look after and there aren't enough staff so their doing the job for like 3 other people .... i think anyone who is a nurse should be applauded - they do the best job !

Answer 9

I have had a few spells in an NHS hospital and in the main the majority of the nurses are entirely competent. They are dramatically overworked and cannot spend as much time as they would like with any individual patient.O.k I was fortunate that my wife was able to visit me daily and helped the nurses by helping me wash and shave, and helping me to the toilets but nevertheless the nurses still found time to check that I was O.K.There are obviously some people working in hospitals who shouldn't be there but this shouldn't detract from the efforts of the majority.r r

Answer 10

It is wrong to generalise and while I do understand that the NHS is in a state, there are also wonderful nurses out there who do an amazing job.

There will always be a few bad apples in the barrel, but we have to support the nurses on the NHS.

It is the government who are at fault for not giving nurses the proper resources. I have had nothing but great experience in the hospitals in the UK - I now live in Ireland, and unfortunately it's an extremely different picture.