Question to Bahais...?

Question

Earlier on today I saw an answer to another question given by a Bahai stating that the Christian religion was dead by the 7th century! Is this generally believed by all Bahais? If it's dead, then how do explain the reformation, Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Knox? How do you explain the Penetcostal movement? The thousands being healed for example in John Alexander Dowies ministry? Thousands of lifes changed in David Wilkerson's or Jackie Pullinger's ministry? My own ancestors having gone into persecution and fled France (je suis hugenot)? If Muhammad was the promised comforter, then why does the Bible say that the Holy Ghost was/is that comforter? He came "not many days hence". Finally, how do you explain my own Pentecostal experience? I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with it I received a gift and power (power to live my life, I might be dead if I didn't). Is it because God just wants me as a Christian or would he want me to change to your religion? I'm not asking to mock.

Thanks Sonya, I know they are decent people, very decent people (most of them). That's why I'm curious, I'm impressed by some of their lifes. Nevertheless, I don't understand them. That's why I'm asking my stupid questions...

maybe I should explain why I brought Muhammad into it... The person who stated that Christianity was dead by the 7th century also said, that Muhammad was the Comforter, which is very confusing for me as a Pentecostal...

Can anybody out there make sense of what doesn't seem to make sense to me...?

Thanks Darth - you've touched another point of interest, Judah's sceptre. I believe that Judah still reigns, the current souvereign being Queen Elizabeth II. Actually most royal families of Europe and other countries are Judahites. Which leads to something else I've been wondering about. I've heard that the founder of your religion wrote a letter to Queen Victoria. Is it recorded what he wrote? Did she answer? What did she answer? As far as I'm informed she was a Christain and a very godfearing lady whose faith was very much based on the Bible. But she did one thing that doesn't fit into the picture and I wonder if it was done under this influence. Wanted to ask you personally, but since it's not possible to mail to you I try communicating this way.

Again to Darth - the Roman Empire, called "mystery, babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth" being defined as the "woman who sitteth on seven mountains" (see Revelation 17) and also called "the iron beast" (see Daniel 7) hasn't really much to do with Christianity. And I'm still not sure wether Constantine was good or evil.

Again trying to talk to Darth - great spritual developments in Christianinty in the 1800s? Yes you're right, must have been a great itme to live in, lasted a bit longer though than what you said. The Bible calls the period of time "Philadelphia". Could be that the devil was so mad at it, that he quickly came up with some new counterfeit. We are currently living in the time called "Laodicea".

Could keep on talking about such things, but need to get busy working now, it's early moring over here.

Sorry - you may have misunderstood me. I didn't mean to ask you for your email adress. I don't really want to reveal my email adress either. While, I think, Q&As is meant to be a one question one answer thing, it's possible to continue a discussion with another user within Q&A. It'll just say "you have received a message from another user", but don't worry about it now, have heard enough for the moment.

Answer 1

Hi.

This is just my PERSONAL understanding of the Baha'i teachings and does NOT in any way represent an official statement of faith:

The Baha'i perspective on religion is that there is only one. Religion is a process of progressive revelation from God to humankind. The eternal principles and virtues proclaimed in every religion are the same, though progressively revealed according to the capacity of humankind at that time. The social laws and other changeable elements of a religion differ according to time and place.

Baha'is furthermore believe that God is an Unknoweable Essence. Consider God as the sun, which is beyond human capacity to directly attain unto. If we take a pure and stainless mirror, we can see the sun therein. God manifests Himself through perfect Mirrors, in the form of infallible pre-existant human beings, called "Manifestations of God" (also known as Messengers of God, greater Prophets, etc.). These include Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, who is both the latest Manifestation of God and Promised One of all religions.

Now, to explain why the 7th century was mentioned and Muhammad was referred to as the comforter: When each Manifestation of God comes, they establish a religious Dispensation. This is the period of time from the establishment of a faith until the coming of the next Manifestation of God. Each Dispensation begins with a spiritual Springtime when everything is fresh and new. The followers of the religion are relatively few and tend to be persecuted. Then comes Summer, when the religion reaches its Golden Age and begins to be applied in society at large. This is followed by Autumn and finally Winter, when religious forms predominate (ecclesiastical institutions, religious dogmas, rituals etc.) but the spirit has largely left the followers. The body of the religion is preserved, but the spirit has left.

At this time, a new Manifestation of God appears. Since He is another pure Mirror of God, He is likewise the return of the previous Manifestation, though He posseses a separate individuality. He proclaims and renews the same Faith of God, even though the individual teachings are suited to a new age and the teachings are couched in a language understandable for the people of that time and in conformity with the development of human society. Christianity has entered the Dark Ages by the 7th century. The Roman Empire had collapsed. Barbarism and fighting were predominant. The spirit of Christianity faded.

At that time, Muhammad appeared in the East, the Seed of Ishmael, Shiloh who took the sceptre from Judah. He was the Prophet "like unto" Moses, mentioned in the Torah. Like Moses, He became a leader of men and instituted a code of law. His teachings uplifted the oppressed, unified the tribes of Arabia and brought people together in brotherhood and Christian love. Muhammad did not claim to bring a new religion, but to renew all that came before. In this sense, He did not replace Christianity, He fulfilled it. He did not destroy the teachings of Jesus Christ, He gave them anew. He clarified the oneness of God and the relationship between God and man and gave principles upon which a peaceful society could be built.

At the time of Jesus, the Jews were expecting three Messianic figures: the return of Elijah, the Messiah and the Prophet "like unto" Moses. In fact, they asked John the Baptist whether He was each of these three. He replied that He wasn't any of them, though Jesus clarified that John was spiritually the return of Elijah. In other words, in a Biblical sense, "return" must be taken symbolically. Anyway, Jesus never said who the third Prophet was, so obviously He hadn't appeared at that time.

Before Jesus was crucified, He told His followers that He would send "another Comforter" (i.e. Jesus is a Comforter and another one would be sent), who would testify of Jesus and "speak" whatever He was commanded to speak by God. The descriptions in the Gospels imply that this Comforter would be an actual human being. He is also referred to as the "Spirit of Truth", a holy spirit. Oftentimes, one refers to people as souls or spirits. In fact, Muslims refer to Jesus as the "Spirit of God" (Ruhu'llah).

Baha'is do believe in the Holy Spirit which descended on Pentecost, but the Holy Spirit was present with Jesus from the beginning. In fact, at His baptism it descended in the form of the dove. The "Spirit" referred to as the Comforter is not referring to the Holy Spirit per se.

Muhammad brought about the Golden Age of civilization, which eventually led to the European Renaissance. As the ideas and science of the Islamic world stirred up Europe during the Middle Ages, Europe gradually modernized and new ideas spread. Luther, Calvin, Knox etc are a result of this impetus. Similarly, when the Bab appeared in 1844, there were great spiritual developments in Christianity which coincided with His life and ministry.

I'm sure you did receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. That is not dependent on your religion. God's mercy is open to everyone. Baha'is believe that the Baha'i Faith is part of the one, eternal progressive Faith of God. It is simply the latest stage in the process. The teachings of Baha'u'llah are suitable for the age in which we live now and Baha'u'llah is the Promised One of all ages. He fulfilled Christianity yet again and all other religions. He did not come to destroy or replace them. If you were to accept the Baha'i Faith, you would not be denying Christianity. You would be affirming it and accepting the Revelation of God for this day and age.

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Additional answer:

Hi, with regards to Judah. You may be quite correct in stating that the Queen descends from the House of Judah, to some extent. But generally, house or family in the ancient world meant a particular male line (father to son) and it is quite clear that there are no royal families inthe world of the House of Judah. Genetic evidence can confirm this.

Baha'u'llah wrote to Queen Victoria. He encouraged her to establish peace and justice in the world. He also praised her for the British abolishment of slavery and modern advances in that country. You can find the letter online. She did not give a written reply, but is reported to have said something like: "If this is from God, it will endure; if not, it can do no harm." (Just what I remember reading, it's not an exact quote). I very much doubt that she did anything based on Baha'u'llah letter.

The Roman Empire was a pagan empire which persecuted Christians initially. Near the end of its existence, it became Christian and was based on Christian principles. I'm not too concerned with arguing this point. Feel free to disagree on this matter. :) In any case, the collapse of the Roman Empire led to the collapse of civilization in Europe, the loss of most of the amenities of civilization and onset of bitter disputes, feudal tyrannies and untold wars, bloodshed, and intellectual degradation.

I hope you're not referring to the Baha'i Faith as "some new counterfeit". I didn't mention a time limit. You could say that the influence of the Bab began with His birth in 1819 or perhaps with the ministry of His forerunner, the great seer and religious reformer Shaykh Ahmad. Baha'u'llah's ministry went until 1892 and Baha'is believe that His influence continues to pervade human affairs. Baha'is believe that the old world order (of injustice, hatred, might is right) is passing away and a new one (of justice, brotherhood, peace) being established. This process is one of great convulsions and changes in society as one world order disappears and a new one is established.

I am not familiar with your interpretations of Revelation prophecy.

Please remember that what I'm writing here is just my personal understanding of Christianity and the Baha'i Faith and in no wise represents some kind of official Baha'i position. I'm a fallible human being, so I may get things wrong. The imporant thing, in my view, is to investigate the truth unhindered and with an open mind. Please try not to condemn the Baha'i Faith or make judgements about it without deeply investigating Baha'u'llah's own writings and the history of the Faith. There are several books on Christian Biblical prophecy in relation to the Baha'i Faith. Baha'u'llah and His son 'Abdu'l-Baha frequently quoted the Bible and interpreted Biblical teachings and prophecies.

If you want to contact me directly, you can go to my website and find a link to my e-mail. I don't want to put my e-mail address here, but my website is:

http://klausjames.tripod.com/index.html

Answer 2

Hello, I have wanted to respond to your questions for days and I am glad that there is finally time to do so.

Does the Baha'i Faith state that the Christian religion is dead - my understanding would be no! How can that be when Christ stated that His words will last forever:

“Know that heaven and earth may pass away, but my words shall never pass away.”

However, what the Baha'i Writings do state that over time the original teachings of religion are often obscured by man-made teachings and traditions.

"The divine prophets have revealed and founded religion. They have laid down certain laws and heavenly principles for the guidance of mankind. They have taught and promulgated the knowledge of God, established praiseworthy ethical ideals and inculcated the highest standards of virtues in the human world. Gradually these heavenly teachings and foundations of reality have been beclouded by human interpretations and dogmatic imitations of ancestral beliefs. The essential realities which the prophets labored so hard to establish in human hearts and minds while undergoing ordeals and suffering tortures of persecution, have now well nigh vanished."
Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 225

In fact, what you mentioned in your questions testifies to this - that there are now many different denominations of Christianity and many are based on different “human interpretations” of Bible. In your question you refer to this as a strength – showing the vitality of Christ’s message. However, the Writings suggests that the development of these different dominations is not a strength but a weakness because it divides the Christian “family” and makes it less able to address the needs of the world today and makes it more difficult for people to know where to go for a true understanding of Christ’s message. In sum, Christ message is the Word of God and will always have the power to transform the human heart but that power has been “beclouded by human interpretations” and is not as strong as it could be otherwise.

In terms of the Comforter – I have never seen mention that Muhammad is the Comforter but Baha’u’llah does claim a link to the Comforter. The Bible does state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit (John 14:26) but there is other quotes that need to be looked at as well. The first is John 16:7 were Christ mentions that if He does not go away then the Comforter can not come. However, we know the Holy Spirit (Comforter) was in operation before Christ manifested Himself:

Luke 1:35 – Holy Spirit causes Mary to conceive Jesus.
Luke 1:67 – Holy Spirit causes John the Baptist’s father to prophesy about John’s future.

The Holy Spirit was in operation during Christ’s life on earth:

John 1:32 – Holy Spirit descends upon Christ like a dove.
Luke 2:25 – Holy Spirit visits Simon to let him know that he will meet Christ.

There are more examples but the point is that Christ did not have to leave (as mentioned in John 16:7) for the Holy Spirit to come since the Holy Spirit has always been able to operate in the world. So if this is true then there has to be another understanding of the quote John 16:7. My understanding is that the Comforter is linked to the Spirit of Truth (John 15:26-27) and Baha’u’llah is that Spirit of Truth. And just like the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) operated through His Holiness Christ (Luke 4:14, Matthew 12:28) the same is true for Baha’u’llah.

Also, if the Comforter is the Holy Spirit that revealed itself soon after Christ’s sacrifice then the Comforter was suppose to “teach you all things”. What new things were taught at that time? If all things were taught why are there over 20,000 dominations of Christianity? Why is there such varying views on something as important as the station of Christ?

Does God want you to be Christian or a Baha’i – my understanding is that since the Baha’i Faith is the fulfillment of Christ message that answer would be Baha’i; however, God has made a world based on free will and personal investigation of truth so that answer is really up to you.

Good luck and wish you the best – thanks for providing a reason to look into the Bible a bit more.

Answer 3

What do you think gives you the impression that Bahais separate themselves from everyone else? Could it be your own attitude to them, or the way they are treated in Iran? In countries that have religious freedom, the Bahais are far from "separate" - they are there in the universities and banks and hospitals, and working in government departments, right along with everyone else. If the idea that your hospital doctor or the teacher of your child might be a Bahai gives you a little bit of a shudder - you know why the Bahais whom you meet want to be separate - from you!

Answer 4

http://bahai.us/