How does the claim that 'Muslims only fight in self defense' square with Muslim invasions of non-Muslim lands?

Question

You hear it all the time from desperate apologists "Muslims only fight in self defense".

If there ever was a bigger lie told than this, I surely havent heard it because the exact polar opposite is true.

First, the Quran never ever ever says to "fight only in self defense", instead it says to "fight everyone who doesnt believe in Allah". Quran 9:29.

Those who lie otherwise, try to do so based on Surah Two's request not to "kill innocents". Of course, if youve studied Islam even a little bit, then you know of the amazing hatred expressed for non-believers who are called "enemies" or "kafir". Enemies are not innocent...unbelievers are not innocent and thus in conjunction with all the other commands to murder unbelievers, can and should be killed.

As it turns out, Muslims follow their scripture well. Its a historical fact that Muslims invaded India and killed more humans than anyone before or since. They invaded Europe, Asia and...wait, I thought Muslims only fight in defense

Answer 1

You are funny mixing sarcasm with history and adding some “self stated facts” in the process

care to give a proof to this statement of yours “Its a historical fact that Muslims invaded India and killed more humans than anyone before or since” I am sure you heard it some where on a radio show

now here is a paragraph explaining why did the Muslims go to Spain

“Prior to the arrival of the Moors, the Visigothic rivals of King Roderic had gathered along with Jews and Arian Christians fleeing forced conversions at the hands of the Catholic bishops who controlled the Visigothic monarchy. The Egyptian historian Ibn Abd-el-Hakem relates that Roderic's vassal, Julian, count of Ceuta had sent one of his daughters to the Visigothic court at Toledo for education and that Roderic had impregnated her. After learning of this, he made his way to Qayrawan (modern day Tunisia) and requested the assistance of Musa ibn Nusayr, the Muslim governor in North Africa. Personal power politics may have played a larger part, as Julian and other notable families were extremely discontented with the existing status quo in the Visigothic kingdom. In exchange for lands in Andalus, Julian promised ships to carry Ibn Nusayr's troops across the Strait of Hercules (Strait of Gibraltar).”

And here is the link to the wikipedia story

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalous#History

you could have a more fruitful discussion if you can be less on rhetoric and more on material

God bless

Answer 2

Well, looking at the history of the matter, i come to these following conclusions. The very earliest conquests by Muslims were indeed mostly defensive in nature, but later, it became less about religion and more about wealth, power and greed, the same as with any other political and military leadership.
As the Muslim armies expanded, they received more spoils of war, they gained more power, they enslaved more people (as all nations did at the time), so why would they want to stop? Who would?
To say that the Muslim expansion was purely defensive is a complete lie, but to say that they were driven by blood lust and a fanatical desire to convert the world is also not true, because the Muslims armies should have either forcibly converted all the people they conquered or killed them and these did not happen on a wide scale at all.
They were humans and were driven by greed and power, pure and simple, from the very first rifts within Islam and the rise of the tyrannical Umayyad dynasty, it was never about religion, faith or god, it was about power and greed.

Answer 3

Well googling: < "Muslims only fight in self defense" > yields no/zero/zip/ hits. So who claims this? And who hears it?

And I trust you're not from the States, U.K., Oz or anywhere else whose country has invaded sovereign lands like Iraq (and where, BTW, has that escalation taken these nations?). But in case you are from the States, as many posters here seem to be, see either of:

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/history/interventions.htm

Or Google: < US invasion list Grenada Iraq Angola Haiti Cuba Vietnam > for another 209,000 presumably similar hits.

These sites demonstrate that Christian countries do what you seem solely concerned about Muslim countries doing. And don't forget the crusades! It'd be nice if *no* nation/religion/group attacked another, so if you're in a position to stop these wars (e.g. as a voter), why not try? Is this a case of: Pot... Kettle... Black re Muslim vs.Xianity?

Answer 4

The same way there are ignorant Christians among the Christians, there are also ignorant Muslims among the Muslims.

When reading Quraan, you have to have a Detailed Explanation of the verses there with you, not just Footnotes written in the Quraan you have. Quraan must be read with the explanations which inform the reader 1. when was the verse/chapter revealed 2. what was the reason for the revelation ( a war, crisis, etc..) 3. detailed explanation and meanings of what God is trying to tell us.

When you have the Quraan and the Detailed explanation, then you will need to get an Authentic Prophetic Sayings Book , saying by Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him).

And what i meant by Ignorant Muslims in our recent days, is they open the Quraan, take each word literally and act on it. That is why we Muslims are highly encouraged by Scholars of Islam to UNDERSTAND the meanings of the verses in the Quraan BEFORE understanding them OUR WAY or the WAY THAT SUITS OUR FANTASIES!!!

So i say the same thing for you Sir, grab a detailed Explanation before Quoting Verses from the Quraan, and Don't just ask questions based on your anger with a Muslim or incident.

Go check the History of Christianity and you will know how violent they were and are till this day.

Answer 5

The early parts of the Koran Mohammed was more peaceful and said things of a mainly peaceful sort. Later after being forced out of Mecca to Medina he was perhaps embittered, and the Koranic verses get harder, as he needed to be harder to impose his authority. I believe that corrupted his personality into one that was calloused to the badness of the taking of lives.

So they're maybe some quotes about muslims only acting in self-defence early in the Koran, and statements about treating unyielding infidel with violence later. If I was a muslim I would be ashamed of the later statements and not let on.

Answer 6

No, the Muslims do not fight only in self-defense and I dont like it when other Muslims are apologetic regarding this.

As a Muslim, I have no shame in saying that Islam was spread by both proofs and evidences and sword and spear, together and inseparably.

The Qur'an says non-muslims must pay jizyah and accept the authority of the Muslims and i have no shame saying that.

"The Muslims conquered the world before and can do it again" -Robert bean

Answer 7

What Allah (SWT) intends and what human beings do are 2 different things. Muslims are not angels but humans due to the fact that humans have free will while angels don't. Having stated that, Muslims can be played with by Shaytaan just like any other human being. We are not evil people and as a Muslim, I have no intention of being defined by ANY human being. I love Allah (SWT) and I love people for the sake of Allah (SWT). I'm not a true Muslim if my neighbor fears me. And with Allah's (SWT) help, I see to it my neighbor doesn't fear me.

Answer 8

You are 100% Right !

People,(Liberals), love to site The Crusades as a Condemnation of Christianity, but the Truth is that The Crusades were in Response to the Violent, and Bloody Expansionism of Islam !

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Oh my Heavens ! I have just agreed with an Atheist !

Answer 9

three combat tours in Afghanistan... i learned that it is quite common for members of the same family to literally go to war with one another, on several occasions we were asked to call in artillery fire and air strikes on an 'enemy war lord' only to find out it was a personal family grudge! Not all are like that, but enough so that the US Army has added about seven chapters on how to deal with their treacherous styles.

Answer 10

So they came out of the Saudi Peninsula and conquered Christian lands (the Holy Land, Northern Africa, Spain, etc. etc.) None of this was self defense. Islam is a religion that seeks to convert with the sword.