Jehovah's Witnesses: Are you confused by the phrase JESUS IS GOD?

Question

I asked a question about your belief of Michael the Archangel becoming Jesus Christ - I asked if Michael was on earth for approx 33 yrs, then who was the leader of the angels?

The reply was "Trinitarian objections (such as "if Michael was on earth, who ruled the angels"?) perhaps ignore a harder question:
If Almighty God was on earth (in the womb even), who ruled everything?"

We do NOT believe that God sent His entire being into Mary to become Jesus. He sent a piece of Himself. (Think of a marshmallow...if you rip a little piece off, the piece is still a marshmallow.)

Jesus was begotten, related to God, God in the flesh. He was not created like Adam was. This is why Jesus is also a Divine being.

The trinity is a phrase used to describe the 3 parts of God...The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

Together, these three are whom we are to be thankful for giving us life and saving us.

We are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. This means that we will worship ALL of them in their oneness.

Michael could not have left a piece of himself in Heaven, but God can do anything.

Jesus is a piece of God. He is like the piece of marshmallow. If you stick it back to the rest of the marshmallow, they are ONE. And I am in no way being disrespectful. I am showing you an example of how it works.

He IS the Son of God...He is the piece that God took off of Himself.

Again, He is a piece of God, He wasn't praying to Himself, He was praying to the bigger, leftover part of God....which is God the Father!

ah the 3 PERSONS question... remember when you learned how to write in first person and third person? You were not actually writing in people. You were writing in different viewpoints.... 3 persons means the 3 parts... Jesus is the only LITERAL person, as in human....

To use the marshmallow analogy again, the Holy Spirit is the part that holds the Son together with the Father. The Holy Spirit is the part that comes to live in each of us and fills us.

******PLEASE SEE JOHN 14: 10-14********

NWT

10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works. 11 Believe me that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me; otherwise, believe on account of the works themselves. 12 Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. 13 Also, whatever it is that YOU ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. 14 If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it.

NIV

10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

KJV

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Jesus is explaining that He can and will grant prayers because His Father is in Him. He is a piece of His Father. He still prays to His Father, because He is NOT the ENTIRE Father.

What does the word Begotten mean?

It's certainly not a separate being unrelated to the first. When you have a child it is man+woman=child. In the case of Jesus Christ, it is clearly God+Mary=Jesus. Jesus is begotten of God and Mary. This means He is made from a piece of God and a piece of Mary.

Where does it say Michael is begotten?

IF Jesus is now in Heaven and is Michael...where did the human, Mary part of Jesus go?

The marshmallow was to clear up any confusion about those of us believing in the trinity....a JW thought that we believed that God sent his ENTIRE self to make Jesus. That is NOT what we believe, and I want to make sure you understand that. That was the point.

And yes, God most definitely is within us so that we may be in union with them. We were made in His image, and the Holy Spirit dwells within.

Answer 1

First of all, we are in no way confused by that phrase, we just totally disagree, the Bible is very adamant about their relationship being that of Father and Son.

Do you consider the following verse and then think that we are part of God because it says that we are one and in union just as they are?

John 17: 20-26: "20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. 22 Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, that the world may have the knowledge that you sent me forth and that you loved them just as you loved me. 24 Father, as to what you have given me, I wish that, where I am, they also may be with me, in order to behold my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you; but I have come to know you, and these have come to know that you sent me forth. 26 And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

Verses 24 & 25 make it very hard to believe that Jesus and God are the same individual, this shows a definite separate identity and a relationship of Father to a Son, and vice versa.

The following Scripture also shows a distinct separation of individuals with an unequal rank.

1 Corinthians 15: 27 & 28: "For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone."

As far as Jesus being created, he most certainly was. Just as Issac was Abraham's begotten son, so the same with Jesus being the begotten Son of Jehovah, however, it says of Jesus, the only begotten Son, meaning that Jesus is the only Son directly created by Jehovah, even Adam was created through Jesus with God's active force, his holy spirit.

Colossians 1: 15-17: "15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things"

Oh, by the way, begotten is a form of beget, and it means literally "to father" "sire".

God transferred the life of his Son into the womb of Mary by the use of his holy spirit, his active force. Thereby he beget Jesus. God did not give us some mystery to try and debate, he gave us his Son in order that we might all eventually gain everlasting life.

John 17: 3; "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ"

And I will just leave the illustration of the marshmallow alone.

And I have to add, that your equation: God + Mary = Jesus, would be exactly equivalent to: your mother + your father = you
How does that make you a piece of another individual, it took two to make you, but you are you and they are each a separate individual from you and from each other. The same with God and Jesus.

Answer 2

I was considering answering this, but after scrolling down all your additions, it is clear that you don't care what the answer is as you fear that your mind may be changed. If you really care, you would have a study and learn the who Bible and not repeat the usual comments posted here.

When it comes down to, as a group, who is the most Christ like, those who believe Christ was God, or those who believe he was God's Son? Even the Apostle John used a different spelling for the word god when he referred to The Word, than what he used in reference to his Father. Yet, he used the same spelling in reference to The Word, Satan, and men, as what? God or a god? Is Satan also God? Go buy an Interlinear Greek Translation of the New Testament at any Bible book store. Better yet, try to get one from any Church, besides witnesses. Note they do not make them available, or even encourage their members to own one.

Answer 3

if Jesus is God, how can he be praying to himself? Jesus always said that he cannot do anything without the Father in the Heaven. when Jesus was baptized, Jehovah came down like a dove and said this is my son the beloved. yes he said you seen me you seen the Father, he was with Jehovah billions of years so he knows his Father real well. Jesus is seating at the right hand of Jehovah. if he where God how can he be seating at the right hand of Jehovah? even the 12 said he was the son of the Most Holy Father Jehovah, not God. also how can Jesus resurrect himself to heaven. Jehovah cannot die but Jesus did die. Jesus was the first resurrection and the last that Jehovah did

Answer 4

JESUS CHRIST DID NOT SAY, “I AM GOD.”

JESUS SAID, “I AM THE SON OF GOD.” mention in John 10:36 & Matthew 27:43

God is not shy to say "I am God" and if Jesus is God, then how come Jesus never said it once like the God of the OT?

Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” Is this a coincidence?

And there is no place in the Holy Scriptures where it specifically says “I AM” is God’s name. True believers know that “I AM” is not God’s name.

Answer 5

First of all, why would you compare God to a marshmallow? How disrespectful!

And secondly, your reasoning makes no sense. Jesus is not God, Jesus is God's son.

"I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." (RS, Catholic edition) At 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms this relationship: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not at the same time be that God.

Jesus made his Father's superiority clear when the mother of two disciples asked that her sons sit one at the right and one at the left of Jesus when he came into his Kingdom. Jesus answered: "As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father," that is, God. (Matthew 20:23, JB)

Answer 6

Jesus is called God several times...

For instance:
Titus 2:13 "That’s how we should live as we wait for the blessed hope God has given us. We are waiting for Jesus Christ to appear in all his glory. He is our great God and Savior."

Answer 7

Anna , are you confused about the concept of religious tolerance and freedom?

Answer 8

Jesus = God

this is part of the basis of Christianity...

Answer 9

Every one has their own take on things.. no one is confused because no one is right.

Answer 10

Matt. 26:39, RS: “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)

John 8:17, 18, RS: “[Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees:] In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.” (So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.)

Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

Matt. 20:20-23, RS: “The mother of the sons of Zebedee . . . said to him [Jesus], ‘Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.’ But Jesus answered, . . . ‘You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.’” (How strange, if, as claimed, Jesus is God! Was Jesus here merely answering according to his “human nature”? If, as Trinitarians say, Jesus was truly “God-man”—both God and man, not one or the other—would it truly be consistent to resort to such an explanation? Does not Matthew 20:23 rather show that the Son is not equal to the Father, that the Father has reserved some prerogatives for himself?)

Matt. 12:31, 32, RS: “Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (If the Holy Spirit were a person and were God, this text would flatly contradict the Trinity doctrine, because it would mean that in some way the Holy Spirit was greater than the Son. Instead, what Jesus said shows that the Father, to whom the “Spirit” belonged, is greater than Jesus, the Son of man.)

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. So the truth here stated applies to the relationship between God and Christ in heaven.)

1 Cor. 15:27, 28 RS: “‘God has put all things in subjection under his [Jesus’] feet.’ But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection under him,’ it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.”


Jesus said in prayer: “Father, . . . this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:1-3, RS; italics added.) (Most translations here use the expression “the only true God” with reference to the Father. NE reads “who alone art truly God.” He cannot be “the only true God,” the one “who alone [is] truly God,” if there are two others who are God to the same degree as he is, can he? Any others referred to as “gods” must be either false or merely a reflection of the true God.)

1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (This presents the Father as the “one God” of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ.)

1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!” (Repeatedly, even following Jesus’ ascension to heaven, the Scriptures refer to the Father as “the God” of Jesus Christ. At John 20:17, following Jesus’ resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as “my God.” Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression. But never in the Bible is the Father reported to refer to the Son as “my God,” nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the holy spirit as “my God.”)

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.