The complexity of God disproving creationism?

Question

Earlier, I asked the question "Would God be a single, simple entity, or an infinitely complex one?"

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070313095930AATvs7J&pa=FYd1D2bwHTHwI7luFO86RvjLWJWOQz9PXbLkT7u7JGl0kdinpenqWFIGoJLQ0OILXzhF8Sa2Cxu5dQ--&paid=asked&msgr_status=

As of when I last checked it:

58% said God was a complex entity.
8% said God was a simple entity.
34% didn't answer the question (as you can read for yourself).

So it's fair to say that God, in most religious people's minds, is complex in nature.

However, quoting from creationism's own website:

http://www.creationism.org/topbar/creationism.htm

The reason that creationists don't agree with evolution is that:

"All that is in this giant universe just kind of "exploded" into existence and complexity all by itself? There is no Creator behind it all?"

If complexity cannot happen "all by itself", and God is complex in nature, how could he always have existed? He would need a creator as well.

Everything that I have done here is clear to read and see.

I have provided all the neccessary links and you can double check that my quotes and figures are accurate.

I have not modified quotes in any way, I have just used what has been posted on one of the biggest creationism websites.

I await any constructive criticism and if you feel I have gone about this unfairly, please say so.

However at both points where an assumption has been made:

Is God complex or simple?
and
Why does creationism disagree with evolution?

The decisions has been made by either religious folk themselves in the first instance, or by creationists themselves in the second.

In response to 'luvdalz' answer.

So you agree with creationism that complex things need a creator.

And you agree with the general opinion that God is one of those same complex things.

You agree both independantly..

..but when you consider both at the same time and it suggests that God could be incorrect, you don't agree.

I see...

In response to Desperado:

I am not debating whether evolution is right or wrong. Some people would argue it either way.

However by using two different creationist standpoints; that complex things need a creator, and God is a complex thing.

Then surely the whole arguement disproves itself. I feel you ignored the actual issue and tried to satisfy yourself by answering a question you set for yourself.

Answer 1

This is an interesting argument.

Answer 2

People usually demand a beginning, so in the beginning there was a sea of spirit and it filled all of space. The spirit was static, content, and aware of itself. It was a giant resting on the bosom of its thought and contemplating what it is. Then the spirit moved into action. It withdrew into itself until all of space was empty. In the center, the restless mind of the spirit shone. This was the beginning of the individuality of the spirit. This was what the spirit discovered itself to be when it awakened. This spirit was God.

God desired self-expression and desired companionship; therefore, God projected the cosmos and souls. The cosmos was built with music, arithmetic, geometry, harmony, system, and balance. The building blocks were all of the same material - the life essence. It was the power of God that changed the length of its wave and the rate of its vibration which created the patterns for multitudes of forms. This action resulted in the law of diversity which supplied endless patterns. God played on this law of diversity as a pianist plays on a piano - producing melodies and arranging them in a symphony. Each design carried within it the plan for its evolution. This plan corresponds to the sound of a note struck on a piano. The sounds of several notes unite to make a chord; chords in turn become phrases; phrases become melodies; melodies intermingle and move back and forth, across and between and around each other, to make a symphony. Then in the end, the music will stop and the physical universe will be no more; but between the beginning and the finish of the music there was glorious beauty and a glorious experience. The spiritual universe will continue. Everything assumed its design in various forms and their activity resulted in the law of attraction and repulsion. All forms would attract and repel each other in their evolutionary dance.

All things are a part of God and an expression of God's thought. The Mind of God was the force which propelled and perpetuated these thoughts. All minds, as thoughts of God, do everything God imagined. Everything that came into being is an aspect of the One Mind.

Answer 3

The idea that complexity derives from greater complexity can never explain the origin of complexity. The idea that a more complex god can ever explain complexity is ludicrous However we understand how complexity comes about. Through the processs of selection applied to variance.

Look at Wolfram's rule 110, the rule is trivially simple ( Just one line of computer code ). Yet it has been mathematically been proven that it generates any level of complexity desired. You only need to "select" where in the output of that rule you wish to look. Indeed it has been mathematically proven that somewhere within that output one can find any finite output you wish to find. You can find a representation of all of Shakespeare, or all of the DNA of every living thing, or even everything within the observable universe. The output as a whole is kolmogorov simple however within that simplicity one can select unlimited complexity. The key here is the word "select". Local complexity is selected from simplicity and variance.

In the case of our own existence we have a profound selection mechanism: Our own existence" We have selected a locally complex region of reality because only local complexity enables our existence and evolution.

The only question remaining is where does the simple variance come from. I prefer to think that it is simply necessary mathematical truth.

Answer 4

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Here is your false assumption. God is very complex; but He has also always existed. This is a difficult concept for a finite mind to understand, but we take it on faith.
It is easy to say that God has always existed and He created the universe. It is not so easy to say that the Universe created itself, as the universe is not intelligent and, like God, would need to be pre-existing.

Answer 5

God was created by Biggod.

I have contacted the Baptists, and they refuse to accept the power and glory of Biggod.

They are nothing but atheists is drag.

So I asked them, DID GOD JUST HAPPEN??

It's very simple, they deny the power of Biggod. Why, because, God, now that he exists, wants to be the center of attention. There will come a day when Biggod will rectify the situation.

Answer 6

You should have had us identify if we were creationists (I am not). I have no question that all your stats and info are true and I agree with your conclusions other than...I still believe God is the ultimate director of the show. Hugs
PEACE2

Answer 7

That's because he is simple you dingy.

From simplicity to complexity, that's the name of the game.

You said what the creationists believed but you are only taking God to be complex because that is what your survey produced.

Answer 8

The problem here is that you do not understand -period. The reason creationist disbelieve evolution is that there is no evidence for it-only speculation, and weakly based. You are trying to fit an infinite, all powerful, all knowing, God into your own little understanding, which is, really, against what it known, immeasurably small.

Answer 9

Heh,

That is a complex question, did you create it?