A question for Jews about Isaiah 53?

Question

I understand your position regarding Isaiah 53. However, within this Chapter, God lists several characteristics which can only apply to a sinless person (or group of people, for the sake of argument): V. 9b-10a tells us this person "had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief." V. 11 declares "My righteous Servant shall justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities." V. 12 says "He bore the sin of many."

If Israel (and not Yeshua) is the true "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53, then this implies God would punish sinless/blameless Israel for the sins of others, including the gentile nations.

Question: How can this be true, since God promised to punish Israel for its OWN sins and bless it immensely if it walked righteously before Him? For example, see Deut. 11 and 28. If we say Israel is the suffering servant, aren't we accusing God of breaking His promise to Israel?

"mommynow," I see what you're trying to say, but please read again -- God places the PUNISHMENT onto the suffering servant, who is innocent. If Israel is the suffering servant, then God broke His promise to bless them if they walk blameless before Him and curse them ONLY if they transgress. Where in the Tanakh does God say there are exceptions to His promise?

Answer 1

yes-I am a Jew and I believe prophet Isaiah-Jesus is our Messiah, and now I have let him into my heart and he is my best friend-I saw it the very same as you. thanks David

INTERESTING THE NEXT PERSON MOMMY WHO ANSWERS -IN HER ANSWERS SAYS SHE IS A WICCA-MEANING A WHITE WITCH-UNDER MOSES WOULD BE STONED-THANK GOD FOR THE MESSIAH WHO OFFERS FORGIVENESS AND THE TRUTH "I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO ONE COMETH UNTO HEAVEN (THE FATHER) BUT BY ME." JOHN 14 VS 6

MOMMY NOW RANTED ON MY PAGE AND REFUSED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ON ISAIAH 7:14 I E MAILED HER PRAY FOR HER-SHE CLAIMS TO BE 'JEWISH' THE CRITERIOR OF MY PEOPLE TODAY IS YOU HAVE TO REJECT MOSES AND THE BLOOD ATONEMENT TO BE JEWISH-IT IS SO SAD-THANKS FOR YOUR GOOD QUESTIONS.

Answer 2

As a first point, may I point out a falacy in the tactic that is employed by some as expressed by your points. Namely, the general idea is to demonstrate that Isaiah 53 is not talking about Israel (which is the Jewish position) and thus trying to imply it is speaking about Jesus. But the truth of the matter is that even if that is proven (which it isn't, but that's another matter) then that still does not prove the point. The basic point is that it does not speak about Jesus, and that is true even if it wasn't about Israel.

As is the case, to fully answer your points themselves, I would direct you to www.messiahtruth.com which has very comprehensive essays on Isaiah 53. All I will point out is that your implications that it is talking about someone sinless seem to be based on either mistranslations or inaccurate translations.

Answer 3

maybe this will help

It is true that the Jewish Scriptures show that there are times when the nation of Israel undergoes suffering as divine retribution for sin. But, it also shows that suffering is not always an indication of sin. Attributing sin to the sufferer is often a glib generalization by those who do not understand the biblical message. The centuries of Jewish martyrdom and suffering alluded to in Isaiah 53 cannot be explained simply as divine judgment for sin. Certainly there is suffering because of sins (Deuteronomy 31:17-18), but not all suffering can be strictly attributed to divine punishment for sin. In a world where there is much evil, suffering is very often the fate of the innocent person. There is suffering that ensues, not from divine judgment, but from the evil committed by man. "My people went down at first into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause" (Isaiah 52:4). We see that the sufferings of the Jewish people are not a reflection of its failures, but of the failures of humankind. One may be faithful to God and still suffer persecution. Of this the psalmist writes:

All this came upon us yet we have not forgotten You, and we have not been false to Your covenant. Our heart has not turned back, nor has our footstep strayed from Your path. Even when You crushed us in the place of serpents, and covered us with the shadow of death. Have we forgotten the Name of our God, or spread out our hands to a strange god? Is it not so that God can examine this, for He knows the secrets of the heart. Because for Your sake we are killed all the time, we are considered as sheep for the slaughter. Awake, why do You sleep, O my Lord? Arouse Yourself, forsake not forever. Why do You conceal Your face, do You forget our affliction and our oppression? (Psalms 44:17-24)

Isaiah 53 provides a model: Israel suffers not only for its own sins but also as a result of the sins of those nations among whom they dwell. The fact is that Jews, because they are elect, suffer. Election carries responsibilities, some of which are not pleasant, but, in the end, faithful Israel will be rewarded.




I also have one question

Isa 53:10 says ...he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

the word for offspring used in Isaiah (zerah) is only used to decribe physical offspring. If Jesus is the the one who is spoken of then that would mean he would have had children. Can you explain this?

Answer 4

can you not be blessed yet still suffer when someone you care about is hurting? i believe the real meaning behind the whole "suffering servant" analogy is that as a jew, i should have sincere empathy for those who are hurting (suffering), and give help (serve) from that perspective. the implication is not punishment or broken promises, it is merely a reminder of the huge responsibility we have as jews for making the world more just - justice is subjective to those who experience the trial so we have to be able to put ourselves in someone else's shoes to really help them. also as a people jews have suffered many trials and god's blessing has come in the form of surviving those trials, who knows if the strength and knowledge of how to do this it is not partly from letting ourselves experience the pain of others when things are going well for us?

edit: the singular servant is used even though isaiah speaks to the group because the writer obviously wanted to stress personal responsibility for creating a more fair world, as well as wanting to express the validity and importance of a personal partnership with god.

i can't find the term of suffering servant used specifically in my translations ( jps and artscroll, i didn't check the others) i still don't see it as a broken promise though, after all, we all suffer, like i said it doesn't negate the blessings in our lives, and we are all blessed. still, we all feel like we have been turned out to fend for ourselves sometimes, and this is when we learn the most about ourselves and others. truth is i don't know of a verse that specifically refers to why the bible would say to two different seemingingly contradictory things, i can only tell you what i believe - our one torah was designed to give wisdom and help us understand many universal and personal experiences. it's just a matter of two writings refering to two different possible (and probable) experiences. one is about how our actions affect our lives and we can choose wisely and be rewarded for doing so (true) - the other is about how sometimes bad sh*t happens and it doesn't matter if it happens to you or someone else, you still need to help make it right (also true).

anyway i really don't see god as this separate entity doling out punishment and blessings, so i guess that's one of the reasons that we view the scriptures differently.

Answer 5

To Love is as natural as breathing in and breathing out.

Do you think our Father has any difficulty in loving unconditionally every single child of His creation? Of course not! So why then do we experience difficulty in loving unconditionally, since we are all the perfectly worthy and most beloved extensions of Himself?

The answer is simple.
We set standards for both the giving and receiving of love.

And where do we get the idea to standardize something as natural as love?
From religion, of course!

Our Father sets no standards! He does not set the imaginary criteria of sinless-ness before He naturally gives from His boundless supply. Why then must we?

Could our expectations of each other be too high? Absolutely!

We were created from Love to be extensions of Love.

Simply be.

Answer 6

You probably wont get many answers to this questions from Jews...