Atheists: What do you think of these statements?

Question

What are morals?

"a relative thing, for example even Hitler thought he has done a moral thing by "cleaning" his country of Jews... Moral for someone is immoral for others... it`s just something relative.."

"Whatever the society establishes it to be. In a Christian society it is the teachings of God."

"Whatever society decides it is."

"We are social creatures. "Moral" is simply being a part of the social group. "Immoral" is going against that social group."

Source: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Apr2Zx88qCk05qAOpI7fLr0AAAAA?qid=20070307124618AALAScU&show=7#profile-info-8a594451fb7533627341f4e0fe83640aaa

Yes, Kharm. What she didn't give you in her question was the context for the statement. That's what I'm doing here. :-)

Acid_Zebra...you missed the point entirely. The debate isn't about Christianity. It's about absolute vs relative ethics. And...I suppose I agree with Abraham and Lot when it comes to homosexuality. Yes, morals sure have evolved over time.... ;-)

I see... "tangential" is a gentle way of saying "missed the point entirely". Got it, Sparky.

Answer 1

Even though I'm a "still-atheist" I agree with "Labgrrr.." Regardless of the authors, as written, the quotes manifest a great amount of ignorance of precisely the fields they seem to address - evolution, sociology, anthropology, and certainly ethics and theology. Each of the quotes is so thin as to be transparent.

Here are three counters - one to each quote. (I do acknowledge them to be fairly trivial, but hey! I'm at work.):

Hitler, even at the height of his power, hid many of the despicable Nazi actions from the German population. Why?

"Christian" societies have been quite brutal - even, and sometimes especially, when the religious authorities wielded great power. Were those the "teachings of God?"

The relation between morality and social existence is not that simple. Individuals have single-handedly opposed and triumphed against existing trends and institutions of a society.

But more importantly, morals work at too many levels in a culture to be treated as mere garbs we discard or wear depending on the weather.

Answer 2

the greatest thing i ever heard in a movie, was from a little jedi called yoda "truth is a point of view", its a simple quote its a true one, when the allies killed the germans it was good, but only for the allies, so if it was good for ther allies and not for the germans was it still good, one can do this with anything, i guess the only truth is what is good for everybody, and while killing the jews was not good, hitler thought it was, just like killing german soliders and civilians was not good, but at the same time it was, the only true good in that situation would be if everybody stoped killing everybody, that would be the common good, this is unreall and would never happened, so what was good then, killing jews was wrong, but killing the ones who killed the jews (and poles and gypsies and a lot of other people) isnt good either, since we all say killing another human is wrong,any death then is wrong when caused my another human, so then what is good. Good is what is good for you, that is what most people seem to think, but if that is true then Hitlar had a right to do what he did (he didnt) so what is good then. Good is a point of view, and thats all it is, so Morals are the same thing, it was moral for hitlar in his mind to do what he did, and it was moral to kill germans for what they did (nethier is right) its a crazy consept, but read about gandhi, if anybody new what was the "comon Good" he was the closest to it.

Answer 3

Morals are what they have always been - that is - what you have been taught by your parents and what is normal within society. Surely you are not saying Hitler was moral - he was a nutter - a fundamentalist. Someone swept up in an idea of nationalism to the extreme. Fundamentalists don't measure the morals of an idea because they enjoy the power of idealism. The power of being right.
I have the morals of my parents-my society-which is fundamentally christian. Its just that I don't believe in a god.

Answer 4

It is possible to identify moral standards just by reasoning. For example, the so-called "golden rule" (treat others in the same way you want to be treated) is a simple, easy to understand rule for mutual benefit of everyone. Regardless of circumstance, society, religion or whatever.
We are all humans. We can identify and promote human rights. That is a very good start. Of course, societies have the right, and the task, to set their own moral standards, but there are standards which should hold for all humanity.

Answer 5

I think they are all correct. Morals change widely from culture to culture, and most cultures vilify those who have different morals, thus creating concepts of right and wrong. But its all relative. There is no absolute right and wrong. Like you quoted, even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing, and he got millions of people to believe the same.

Answer 6

Empathy is basically treating others as you wish to be treated. Humans evolved empathy as an evolutionary trait, due to the fact that we are social animals. It benefits the group to help each other. We do not follow these instincts 100% of the time, but we do it enough to allow for a society.

Answer 7

Look, we have direct evidence morals evolve with us.

Most of the then-germans went along with Hitler's plans, and guess what the majority religion in Germany then was?

Ooooh, christianity.

Anyway, over the past 2000 years we have abolished slavery (even though the bible says its, you know, OK), we have given voting and indeed complete equal rights to women (as it should be, despite that in the bible women have the status of lamp posts/objects or close to it), and worked hard on countering racism (even though some idiots still don't get it). In short, our moral stance on those issues is changing and so it should.

Answer 8

Morals are:
1. The lessons or principles contained in or taught by a fable, a story, or an event.
2. Concisely expressed precepts or general truth; maxims.

Answer 9

I don't like any of those answers. 1 and 3 are close. Morals are common sense. We should know right from wrong. Morals are to try to do the right thing, what is right to us. We should try to obey the law. Man's law not what some idiot says is god's law.

Answer 10

Biologically, the so-called "moral" is another word for a more highly-developed and evolved social instinct

But of course, most people still don't know the true definition of "moral"