Do you convert first by fear or pain, so that they might afterwards be influenced by teaching?

Question

"It is indeed better (as no one ever could deny) that men should be led to worship God by teaching, than that they should be driven to it by fear of punishment or pain; but it does not follow that because the former course produces the better men, therefore those who do not yield to it should be neglected. For many have found advantage (as we have proved, and are daily proving by actual experiment), in being first compelled by fear or pain, so that they might afterwards be influenced by teaching, or might follow out in act what they had already learned in word." --Saint Augustine, Treatise on the Correction of the Donatists.

Answer 1

Basically what Saint Augustine is talking about is brainwashing ( to put it euphemistically). I presume your asking about any belief, not just belief in God. If I had the power to convert someone, it would depend on the belief that I wanted to convert them to.
In human civilization there are many instances where you must first convert by fear and pain, and then start teaching. The most common is the lessons to be learned in childhood. A child will not typically behave well and respect others unless he is first punished. The criminal justice system is the same way ( at least in theory).
The question becomes, how important is it to convert someone to a particular belief ? The more important, the more an effort will be made to teach them, and thus more of an effort will be used by fear and pain if teaching isn't enough.
The problem ultimately is whether the belief your trying to convert them to, is true and worth the effort.

Answer 2

There are days when I wish atheists would join the rest of us in the year 2007. To hear some of you tell it, you'd think that the Inquisition was just over last weekend.

How about a little more recent quote -- i.e., sometime within the last hundred years or so?

"Instead of death and sorrow, let us bring peace and joy to the world To do this we must beg God for His gift of peace and learn to love and accept each other as brothers and sisters, children of God."

(Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta)

Answer 3

I believe as Christians we are to tell people what Jesus has done for us. The Holy Spirit does a fine job of conviction. When I was an Atheist (among other anti GOD things) I would of told you that Christians were condemning me to Hell and shoving their religion down my throat. After reflecting on it for a while I realized that the only person who ever told me I was going to Hell was an old Quake Clan mate when I was in Clan Inquisition. It was the Holy Spirit speaking to my spirit that brought the pain and fear.

Answer 4

Before I was saved i was in an overwhelming amount of pain, it was through love(from God and my fellow Christians) that i was able to understand and follow his teachings.

Answer 5

I was indeed in a great deal of pain. Knowing what I know now, I should have surrendered earlier. I converted by love though.

If we were scared of dying, no one would smoke.

Answer 6

I completely disagree for the fear and pain factor both will only hinder what is being taught and those individuals will still be the same; only they will supress it.

Answer 7

True conversion comes from Love. Coming to a realization that God loves us and we were made for Him.

Answer 8

I love that quote! Further proof of the desire of the catholic church to control the masses through idiotic fear.

Answer 9

They don't call him SAINT Augustine for nothing.

Praise Jesus.