Logically proving the existence of God?

Question

1- Since the universe had a definite beginning, we can say that it was created.

2- Laws of physics states that matter cannot be created.

Therefore, it is only rational to say that the universe was created by a power that is above and independent of the laws of physics as we know them. That power is clearly not restricted or confined to the basic laws of physics but far superior. Neither can this power be of a physical essence.


....Hah.

Answer 1

Wrong and wrong....

Matter can be both created and destroyed... re: atomic bombs, and supercolliders...

The universe may well have infinitely existed, without beginning or end.

Try again, brush up on your physics, expand your mind.

Answer 2

1. you are assuming the universe had a "definite beginning" without offering any proof of that. How do you know? Because the Bible said so? Why do you assume that something coming into existence has to be created? If that is the case, then what created God?

2. the 1st Law of Thermodynamics...the conservation of energy....matter can neither be created or destroyed, just change form. What this says is that...at least under the laws of the existing universe....the amount of mass and energy in the universe has always been the same, and has always existed....this is no more bizarre than saying the same for God, and actually is less complicated. The idea of God is redundant, and not necessary under the 1st Law of Thermodynamics that you cited.

3. How you make the leap from points 1 and 2, to say that shows god exists...... even if you WERE correct about them, which we've already shown you're not,......how you make that leap is illogical and essentially....I would call it a leap of faith.

So you don' t have a logical argument...you have belief.



Ha ha

Answer 3

The laws of physics as you know them. Check up on what physics has discovered in the past thirty years. Especially the quantum vacuum effects. Matter and energy are created and destroyed all the time. Yes I mean stuff coming out of nowhere and going back. Two of the keywords are virtual particles. Virtual particles can not be measured because the act of measuring them converts them into real particles. (still there?)
The universe does not have an actual precise beginning. If it did that would be a singularity. The laws of physics break down in a singularity.
I see these kinds of questions on here quite a bit. You should go over to the science side and ask them some science questions. It is really amazing. If you think religion is nuts wait until you hear about Super strings and time travel.

Answer 4

the universe did not necessarily have a beginning that is speculatory and goes against the theories of Albert Einstein that states matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed . your logic is specious ! And neither fairy tales nor myths explain anything of logic! Many a scientist speculate that the universe is cyclic without beginning nor end but merely transitions. your rationale is just a step from the celestial teapot theory. double hah.and if this imaginary god of yours is supernatural how does he come into a natural world and with what supernatural measuring stick shall we regard his existence and who created the god did he have a bad child hood which we can hold responsible for the inception of diseases such as cancer and HIV ? I see little to no evidence to support your conjecture but much to contradict it . Even Einstreins metaphorical or pantheistic view seems transparently just a tool or reflection of himself as most of the more intelligent people have thought . Wjo on earth ever sold you the universe had a beginning idea failed to mention that was a conjecture not a fact and not subscribed to be all . our existence shows a definite progression from ignorance to intelligence and if it were created by god this would be in reverse .triple hah.would you like to go two out of three and i'll let you have god on your side of the debate....good luck ! ps and keep in mind your first rule is not true necessarily and you broke the second rule by calling on the false god to create that which can't be created . Give it up it's a matter of opinion or faith only !

Answer 5

It is energy, not matter that cannot be created or destroyed, only change form. The universe did not have a definite beginning--time does not exist in a linear manner.

However, I agree that there is at least some evidence that there is a superior entity (God) that created the universe/multiverse, and that possibly the entity would not be physical. The very simplistic mathematical nature of the universe pushes me to continue my study of math for understanding of creation.

Answer 6

This is actually a common idea in Philosophy, not a new type of logic.

However, it does not prove that God exists, especially since we have the Big Bang Theory and MANY other theories that could just as logically explain the beginning of the universe.

God should be a matter of faith when it comes to his mere existence; religious beliefs (church laws) should be a matter of logic.

Answer 7

Both matter and energy cannot be created. This is true. But they can be converted. There's no way to tell for sure, because no one can accurately describe everything in the universe and how it all interconnects, but think about this. Black holes suck in EVERYTHING, including light. Then, they throw out a beam of energy from the top and the bottom of the event horizon. Basically, black hold convert matter and energy into beams of energy. Who's to say there isn't some cosmic phenomenon that converts energy into matter?

Answer 8

This is a rehash of an argument that Thomas Aquinas propounded some centuries ago. Nobody has taken it seriously for centuries, because it neither has anything to do with the properties ordinarily ascribed to a god (particularly an interest in and occasional meddling in human affairs) nor provides any foundation for predicting effects -- so, it is useless. For much more on this, see:

Answer 9

Number one does not prove God, sorry. Number 2 - you missed the part that matter can also not be destroyed. But I still don't see how the fact that matter cannot be created or destroyed (and can only change form) proves god *created* everything. I think your logic is flawed.

Answer 10

Agree. St. Thomas Aquinas proved God's existence centuries ago:

In the "Summa theologiae" Aquinas records his famous five ways which seek to prove the existence of God from the facts of change, causation, contingency, variation and purpose. These cosmological and teleological arguments can be neatly expressed in syllogistic form as below:


Way 1
1. The world is in motion (motus).
2. All changes in the world are due to some prior cause.
3. There must be a prior cause for this entire sequence of changes, i.e. God.


Way 2
1. The world is a sequence of events.
2. Every event in the world has a cause.
3. There must be a cause for the entire sequence of events, i.e. God.


Way 3
1. The world might not have been.
2. Everything that exists in the world depends on some other thing for its existence.
3. The world itself must depend upon some other thing for its existence, i.e. God.


Way 4
1. There are degrees of perfection in the world.
2. Things are more perfect the closer they approach the maximum.
3. There is a maximum perfection, i.e. God.


Way 5
1. Each body has a natural tendency towards its goal.
2. All order requires a designer.
3. This end-directedness of natural bodies must have a designing force behind it. Therefore each natural body has a designer i.e. God.

Answer 11

Hugh Ross has stated that the God of the Bible can be demonstrated to operate in at least 18 dimensions, probably a lot more.
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