Excessive force by policeman??

Question

People are asking so many questions about the policeman and how much force was used while trying to arrest/subdue her. My question is ........ if someone was punching, kicking, spitting at you how much force would you use to stop them cos i can guarantee that i would try my hardest to knock them out flat and use whatever was about to stop them attacking me

why should this policeman be the subject of an investigation because he was using a technique he learnt in training?? If this method is wrong then dont blame him blame the powers that be that introduced this method.

I had only part of the CCTV footage when i posted my question - I have now seen the complete recording and after seeing her hitting out at a friend who came to get her or calm her down i am even more in the polices favour - if she will hit and lash out at a friend then why wouldnt she do the same to a stranger

For "The temple of bad" - I was in a violent relationship for 13 years - I would get "taught a lesson" by my husband if i went out on a night out with my friends or spent too much at the supermarket and things like that - so i know what it is like to be hit for doing nothing but she wasnt doing nothing she was resisting arrest and domestic violence is completely and utterly different from what happened in this situation

Also, if that was my daughter i would let her know in no uncertain terms that she was a disgrace, am embarrassment and that she was no longer allowed to live in my home

Answer 1

After reading this post and the dozens of others on this subject, I can honestly say I think the general population understands what is going through the mind of a cop when faced with a resistant subject.

Now put yourself in his shoes. You are minding your business at your local little cop hangout. Not bothering anyone, not writing too many tickets, not really thinking about anything but going home to your wife and children. You then get a call because someone who chose to go out at night, get uncontrollably drunk, cause a huge disturbance and damages to other people's property now needs a baby sitter. The police are called because the rest of the public stands by and watches it all unfold. An officer shows up, tries to talk to the drunk who returns the favor by spitting on him. Once the decision to arrest is made - as I think even the super liberal whiners here can agree needed to be effected - the subject commences to fight.

So now what? We should walk away and say "Oh, she wants to fight - I need to be someplace else fast." We all wish we had the luxury of walking away. AT the time when the general public decides to turn and run, we are required to wade in and handle it.

It should happen to my daughter? If it did in exactly this same example - my daughter would have a second whooping coming.

Answer 2

Not sure what this is all about - I would be interested to see this if it's posted somewhere, but the answer is, the Police should use what ever force is reasonable in the circumstances. It matters not that one person was a lot smaller than the Police officer. The Officer is allowed to use what is needed to control the person they are apprehending. A very small person can be just as strong as a big, strong, tall person - it just depends on what frame of mind they're in, or if they've taken drugs, drink etc. Whilst it may look as though an officer is using excessive force, they need to increase their level to control the person, and then once under control they're only allowed to use enough force to keep that control. They shouldn't be had up for doing their job, as you say, especially as though it was something they were taught in their self defence techniques. More and more though, we are taught how to use other techniques so that it looks better to passers by, techniques that don't look so aggressive, because public perception is always going to be that the Police were too heavy handed.

Answer 3

What was seen on the CCTV footage is nothing to what I have witnessed here in Spain at the hands of the Guardia Civil. Here, its commonplace for the police to be exceedingly brutal and for all complaints to fall on stony ground, they are never followed up through the fear the GC spread....necessary force must be used, but excessive is a fine line...where there is evidence such as CCTV and a medical examination to prove injury, that could possibly be classed as excessive, its possibly one of the real reasones CCTV cameras are not sited in many towns and cities in Spain. It will not stop here until the 'Old school' officers from Franco's regime are gone and their influence diminished from the ranks

Answer 4

Don't believe the hype. All you've seen is fuzzy CCTV footage presented to you by a cynical media ready to manipulate and brainwash you into believing that the Police are not to be trusted. It is all apart of the current government's agenda to create a climate of fear. If you believe this you will then believe that Labour are the only political party who can make us secure from rampant criminals, terrorists and ironically, government itself.

How does anyone know the Officer was using excessive force? I mean if the first punch was so strong, so hard and so painful don't you think she would have let go after the first strike? People shouldn’t be so quick to judge unless they have tried to safely arrest a drunken person lashing out intent on causing injury. The Officer was using a Home Office approved restraint technique in order to get this little piece of pond life to let go so that he could cuff her. Clearly if it took five strikes to get her to release her grip it wasn't force enough to make her let go after the first hit. So who was showing restraint? The media make her out to be some modern day Robin Hood but she is no angel and shown that she has a much class as school on Saturdays, ie: none!

Last week Linda Dobbs, a High Court Judge, reduced the sentences of two thugs who kicked an off-duty Copper in to a coma. Ever since then PC Coffill has been in a Permanent Vegative State and needs constant round the clock care. His life is over, his career is over and his family have been destroyed by this senseless beating. The two pieces of scum who did this are now expected to only serve six and seven years each. Where was the public outcry when this happened? No-one on YA! asked questions about the lenient sentencing of violent criminals after this. No one asked what are the government going to do to protect our boys in blue? So many people on these forums seem to want to live in a lawless, free-for-all society but they wouldn’t even last two minutes if it weren't for people like me taking a stand and saying enough is enough is enough.

Its about time the media praised our Coppers instead of sowing seeds of doubt and undermining the very difficult job they have to do. Police Officers put their lives on the line daily because they want to better their communities, yes they are members of the public also, and all some people can do is sit back and judge and say from the comfort of their living rooms how the police should react to violent situations. I mean what was PC Mulhall supposed to do? Stand back and let her rip his wife's best friend off!?

Answer 5

The person in question, woman or not is irrelevant, was extremely violent and aggressive. She had to be restrained, why would anyone think that if you were hitting, spitting and grabbing genitalia that somehow because she was a woman she should be excused - don't give it out unless you are prepared to be restrained - and if the person continues to fight then clearly the restraint will have to match that! The more people involved in restraining an individual the less likely it is that physical harm will happen - numbers of Police officers does not automatically indicate brutality.

That stupid woman from Liberty is interfering yet again - eroding the rights of the majority in favour of a person who has a history of incidents.

The Policeman has to be accountable yes, however he is doing his job, and when will individuals like this person take responsibility for their own action. Personally I don't know how she can show her face or give interviews - I would be too ashamed at how I had behaved if I was her.

Answer 6

In this day and age Police have many tools. This question is hard to answer because if you are not in the field in the situation it is hard to say what should be done.

As a police officer your main goal is to go home at the end of your shift. Sometimes things get ugly in the field. if someone is attacking you it is safe to say they may go for your gun. So I say use the tools you have, Mace, Taser, Asp,

On the other hand Police need to watch what type of force they use. The force has to be justified by the situation. If a police officer is 6'2 300 lbs and a 5'5 150 lbs woman hits him I don't think that Knocking her out would be necessary.

Being a police officer in this day in age is difficult. Not only do you have to worry about the streets, you also have to worry about the admin/courts picking you apart for what you do.

Answer 7

Police are legally granted to use whatever means of force necessary to stop the threat (whether it's a threat to the officer, the subject, or the community). Typically in a situation like this, they look at how they got to the outcome in the first place. E.G. Who started escalating the force? Did the subject start and then the officer exhaust all other reasonable means possible? It is an officer's legal right to maintain the position of advantage and to follow through with proper police action (balance of safety and efficiency).

Answer 8

Simply put....You use the minimal amount of force necessary to overcome the resistance. If the resistance keeps up, increase the amount of force or employ the tool needed to get the individual to comply.
And "comply" doesn't mean submission. It means placing the subject in a position where they can be restrained. Once cuffed striking the subject is strictly verbotten.
As far as being investigated for use of force...there are a lot of people out there who make complaints like that and the majority of them are unfounded. In many cases the officers act within their parameters. You have to remember you're dealing with losers who lost their bid to fight with a cop. They aren't hurt. Just their pride.
My opinion....you get what you deserve if you resist arrest. The law is quite clear on this. You do not resist an arrest. You take your complaint to the courts. Thats your forum. Not fighting cops.

Answer 9

I watched the video closely, and from a legal standpoint, this woman has no leg to stand on.

There is not a single frame that shows a fist making contact with the woman at all. She had no bruising on her face afterwards either. She was struggling and resisting arrest. The officer was doing what he is trained to do with a violent and struggling detainee.

It may have looked nasty to the cossetted and protected people who the political correct lobby are trying to brainwash into believeing that they live in a safe a pretty and nice world, But facts are facts.

When people freak out in a rage, even women, in fact especcially women, it takes a lot of people to restrain them. It doesn't look pretty, but it is necessary.

Answer 10

At first sight it looks horrific.

Burly copper beating up a teenage girl and it's all caught on video.

Howls of protest greeted the footage. This was, we were told police brutality of the worst kind.

And because Toni Comer is black it exploded into a race row.

But let's examine the evidence.

Footage of Ms Comer Wrestled to the ground lasts just a few seconds.

Moments earlier she'd left a nightclub drunk and vandalised cars.

When PC Mulhall arrived she resisted arrest and attacked him.

He wasn't to know if Ms Comer had a knife or something worse.

Punching the top of her flailing arm so she could be handcuffed was perfectly reasonable.

Those quick to criticise the police have never faced the terror of confronting and detaining a violent drunk in the middle of the night and have only witnessed it from the comfort of their arm chair.

PC Mulhalls job is to protect those people quick to criticise. By detaining Ms Comer safely and quickly he was doing his duty to the best of his ability.

She suffered no injuries and needed no medical attention as a result of the arrest.

How depressing a copper had been taken off front line duty and put in charge of paperclips because of a few inconclusive seconds of video.

South Yorkshire Police should not bow to a PC-inspired witch hunt which has rushed to judgement and played the race card.

Police Constable Mulhall should be back where he belongs.

On the beat, protecting the public.