Do you agree on this quote of Pope John XXIII?

Question

"If civil authorities legislate for or allow anything that is contrary to the will of God, neither the laws made nor the authorizations granted can be binding on the consciences of the citizens, since God has more right to be obeyed than men."
This is for people who believe in the bible, the ten commandments and still are for the war.
No excuses of what else the bible says please, because to not kill I would hope would be agreed to be up there in validity.

And if president Bush is such a proclaimed Christian, how can he favor war, including many of parliament, and Cheney I am sure

Answer 1

Yes, I agree. This is basic Catholic teaching.

Christianity does not have authority over civil authority.

But God does have authority of Christians.

Christians reside in their own nations, but as resident aliens. They participate in all things as citizens and endure all things as foreigners. They obey the established laws and their way of life surpasses the laws.

The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel.

We must obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29)

With love in Christ.

Answer 2

The question is more of a specious argument.

1) As a bapitzed Roman Catholic, the Pope has the authority to "make the rules" for Catholics. I can either accept them or choose not to and put my eternal soul at risk. So whether I agree or not is a moot point.

2) As an American citizen, I have an obligation to respect and tolerate the views of others and defend religious view points that are different than the ones that I am obligated to observe. Being a baptized Catholic can present some interesting choices to those who (for example) don't believe in welfare but claim to care about the poor or those who reject the pro-life nut jubs and support a womans right to reproductive choice. Either way, whether or not I (or anybody agrees) is a moot point.

3) Regarding the "will of God" say what you want about Roman Catholic priests, but every RC priest graduated from a 4 year college, attended 4 year of seminary (a rigoruous academic challenge to say the least) they can speak at least 2 languages and for all intents and purposes, they are damn near PHD's in theology or philosophy.

Now I am a human being with a free will. As such, I have the right to agree or disagree about what the will of God really is. But for me or anybody to try and argue with theologians with 2000+ years of religious leadership, academic endeavor, and Catholic Priests that are religious leaders who have forgotton things that you and I will never have a chance to know would be a waste of time and absurd.

Any questions ???

Answer 3

The pope was right. Bush is the type of "Christian," esp common in the south, who uses the title Christian to signify being in the dominant group that uses the bible to keep other people blindly following and under control. Their befiefs are defined by what hey fear and whom they hate.

Some of these answers are moronic. Respect the laws of the land when made by Hitler? The Taliban?

Funny how "Christians" only respect leaders who are Republican. They defend wars based on lies, and act like lying about sex threatened the republic.

And stop selectively mixing old testament wars and new testament faith.

The bible was given to us by the Church, not vice versa. The canon was set over 300 years after Jesus' death.

The fact that no 2 people on earth interpret the bible the same way illustrates why it is not some magic answer to support your particular biases.

And I should automatically do what evil men say because they manage to find a way to win a election?

be consistent, people

Answer 4

In obvious cases I can agree, for example the members of the underground churches in places like North Korea, Saudi, Bhutan, etc. are right to defy government laws forbidding them for worshipping God. But this isn't something that should be taken lightly. The bible teaches respect for the gov. when it doesn't mean disobeying God, and to just decide on a whim that a law you don't like must be ungodly would be a big mistake and sin.

EDIT: God who gave moses the 10 commandments also commanded him/the israelites to go to war....

Answer 5

Yes; that is basic Catholic morality:

"The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. 'Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.' 'We must obey God rather than men.'" (Catechism of the Catholic Church #2242)

Answer 6

I agree with that quote and I'm not Catholic. I would even agree with it if I were an atheist!!!!!!!!


We ALL know what happened during segregation in the U.S., in Nazi germany, multiply these examples by hundreds, nay thousands and still people defend CLEAR violations of human rights with "It's the law". How sad. Will somebody please tell the world that this is 2007 already?

Answer 7

Who can truly know what "the will of God" is? Certainly not a book that was written by men, and has been translated/mistranslated many times - with different meanings and interpretations - over thousands of years.

So since you cannot truly define what the "will of God" is, other than one biased person's interpretation of it, how can you truly know what is "contrary" to it? This makes no logical sense.

To me, this is yet another case of religion trying to interfere in STATE affairs, where it doesn't belong.

Answer 8

I's say stroke or a heart attack. i think of basically the Vatican docs be responsive to, you be responsive to, they actually do not publicize it. Even Popes have a undeniable privateness. There are rumors, and it somewhat is not undemanding to have self assurance, Wikipedia.

Answer 9

Of course he is right. It's common sense. It doesn't mean that we won't suffer punishment. But really, if they passed a law saying that you should kill anybody who said something offensive to a protected group, and you witnessed a relative saying something (perhaps unintentional), you would kill them for it, would you?

Answer 10

I agree with the quote. What you fail to mention is that the quote does not refer to defending yourself or your country.
Everyone has a right to defend themselves and the commandment regarding killing does not mean do not defend yourself is someone wants to kill you.