How to advise puppy owners on potty training when they won't accept crate training or if ...?

Question

...or if they use the crate incorrectly? What are the alternatives to house training if crate training won't be used? How do you advise an owner if they're using the crate incorrectly (in isolation of basement, puppy "jailed" for 8 hours without a break, accepting that the crate is a place for potty time, etc)? BTW, do you think that the examples I gave are boarder line abusive?

Goldengal, I agree with everything, except the bathroom idea. I was going to use that idea until my vet warned me of puppies/young adult dogs getting wedged and stuck around the toilet. Also, my Golden loved to unwind our toilet paper, LOL!

I'm not a breeder, vet or trainer. I am just interested in your answers because I have a family member who brought a 6 wk old pup in their home. They didn't do any research, and now they're using a crate for 8 PLUS hours and they're hitting the poor pup for eliminating in the house. Apparently, they "try" to get the puppy out to potty in the morning before they go to work. HOW ON EARTH DO YOU TRY?? YOU EITHER DO IT OR YOU DON'T! For crying out loud! This is abuse, isn't it. They won't listen to me or my Sister in law. How frustrating!

Answer 1

First, does your family want help? If you are telling them what to do but they don't think they are doing anything wrong, you are not going to accomplish anything other than giving yourself a massive migraine and flat forehead from banging it against the wall constantly. If they have sought your advice...

My job is to answer people's questions about their pets' behavior problems. I occasionally have the same frustration: a "yea, but..." person who comes up with reasons why none of my suggestions will work. If you provide several realistic ideas and they will not do any, all you can tell them is then they have to deal with the consequences of not taking action. Unfortunately, ultimately it is the dog who will pay but, again, all you are going to do is get yourself more upset.

I have also resorted to finally asking a person who keeps trying to justify their methods "How's that working for you?" Obviously it isn't working or they wouldn't be calling me. That can open people up to actually trying some new things instead of being pigheaded.

And, with family or friends who won't take my suggestions for other problems, I have finally had to tell them "if you won't do anything about it, I don't want to hear anymore complaining."

For housetraining, preventing accidents and reinforcing good behavior are all that are needed. If they don't want to crate, they need to either watch the dog or confine it in some other manner. It needs to be taken outside on a consistent schedule and praised and treated when it does go outside.

I will say that I believe that crating for 8 hours is not abuse, depending on the dog and the situation. It is clearly inappropriate for a young pup, though. It is going to eliminate several times in that period. It will soon learn to accept being in its waste if it eliminates in the crate a few times, and house training will become even more difficult.

You can tell them they will likely create more behavior problems than the ones they are trying to solve by using the crate too long and keeping the crate in an area where the pup is isolated. They can expect excessive barking or whining, separation anxiety, aggressive behavior, destructiveness, and other issues.

Answer 2

No dog should be crated for 8 straight hours, and expecting a dog under 1 year to hold it's bladder for more than a couple hours is ridiculous and cruel. The crate should never be used for discipline of any sort and is not a place to potty, it is a place to be comfortable and happy where the dog does not WISH to potty until it is let out to do so in the yard. Crate training should begin with 1 hour intervals (30 minutes if dog is less than 12 weeks) and every interval should end with a potty break and a reward for not having an accident.

Crate training is by far the fastest and easiest method of potty training. I advise you to have your owners find a book or website to help them. The crate needs to be place in a family area, given blankets and toys to make it comfy, and used at appropriate intervals for potty training only. Letting the dog run around the house until it has an accident and then locking it up is not the purpose of crate training. You should advise them that if they continue to misuse the crate, the dog will learn nothing but fear and they will miss the window of potty training altogether and the dog may never fully learn.

Answer 3

That is one question I asked before I even considered if I sold a pup to anyone.
If they aren't going to crate trin then I usually advise them to pick out a bathroom to house the puppy in and get a baby gate to keep the pup inside.
All prospective puppy owner should be told that keeping a pup crated for more than 4 hours at a time is not a good thing to do and I consider it cruel. They either have to make arrangements to have someone come to let the pup out of the crate for not only potty but just to play with the pup and make sure it is fed for the noon feeding. Even if the do the bathroom thing the puppy still needs to be fed at noon and taken out for potty.
You need to set some rules down to your clients as to weather they are prepared to really care for the puppy you may be selling to them.
P.S. Well I guess I'd asume that they would remove the toilet paper. LOL Also maybe because Golden pups are larger I have never heard of one getting stuck behind the toilet either. There are also baby play areas that can be purchase at Wal-Mart that would also do fine to contain the pup but then again the pup needs to be take out to go potty and fed. But your right they are abusing the poor pup and I don't think they should be allowed to keep the puppy. They are very bad puppy people! I would not have sold them one of my puppies at all.

Answer 4

Stop with the abusive idea, it is no more abusive than making 1st graders stay in classrooms. They to have to hold it when they want to use the potty, especially if other class mates have abused the ability to excuse themselves. Maybe you should think about it this way, some people think crate training is abusive, but it isn't. Maybe what your discussing isn't either.

Anyway, the answer is without crate training they owner would have to be home 24/7. They can use noises which startle the dog when it is going in the house and put it outside and reward it after going. Soda cans with some pennies can be shaken to startle dogs etc..

The main thing is constancy. If they are consistent and really keep after the dog it will be housebroken in 2-6 weeks depending on the breed. Consistency is a must. The owner has to get up and guide, startle, put in right place, watch, and reward at all times. Lazy owners don't have house broken dogs without crates. Which is more abusive? Forcing owners to be on top of the situation 24/7 or using a crate? My answer is neither is abusive, because they are turning the dog into a dog that will have a home.

BTW I answered your question this way because I do not want to promote the idea that animals are being abused. The animal rights movement is about to succeed in making the US dog free. No one will have a dog if we allow that to happen, just like no one wears a fur coat. So the idea of abuse has to be reduced. The reality is a dog in a crate that can't hold it is going to be a wet dog. LOL not a housebroken dog but a wet dog. Is it abusive? I don't know there are plenty of kids in this counrty that are bed wetters are they all being abused?

Answer 5

Crate training is not so common everywhere, I think this is an american thing really. It is actually not very nice for a dog to be put in a cage, in Greece this is considered quite unpleasant. The way we use to train a puppy is to take it on walks very often, when he wakes up and after his meals, etc, so that he pees outside, and praise him for doing that. So he gets used to peeing on the ground, and after many months he learns to wait. Jailing a puppy is awful, especially for long periods, it is abuse, but it al starts from considering the crate a great tool, well tools can be used badly. I don't know how to advise pet owners, it depends what you are (trainer, pet shop owner, animal rights society member, or just a neighbour), but the best way is to just tell them and explain with arguments why you are right and how your alternative will work better than theirs.

Answer 6

Hi, congrats! We have 3 dogs: a 12 year old lab, 4 year old corgi, and a 10 week old lab puppy. Here are a few tips based on my experience: Regarding her collar--she will eventually get used to it. All puppies take time getting used to a collar and will scratch at it because they're not used to it being there. Give it a week or so. Make sure you always leave it on. When you walk her with her leash, tell her firmly to "come" and carry some treats with you. Crouch down and be really enthusiastic and speak in a high-pitched voice. When she obeys, offer the treat. You may only get a few feet each time, but eventually she will catch on. If you are consistent and stick with it for a while (some dogs learn faster than others!) you will be successful. She's just not used to it and hasn't learned that a leash is used for walking. Whatever you do, do not tug harshly or drag her! Additional things you may want to purchase are some toys. Puppies need to chew, and you will want to give them an outlet for that need. At some point you will need to give her a bath, so you will want to get a bottle of puppy soap (make sure it says 'puppy' on the bottle; a puppy's coat is a lot different from an adult dog's). After a bath you will want to brush her. And don't forget treats! Again, make sure they are specifically for puppies! They need to be easier to chew than adult dog treats. If you have an old blanket or towel lying around, you may want to put that in the crate with your dog. Our new puppy has his own beach towel that stays in his crate with him. Also make sure your puppy has a soft bed to lie on in her crate! Good luck and have fun!

Answer 7

Hi, I understand that you are looking for some advice or resources to help fully train your dog or fix behavior problems. If a professional dog trainer is not an option at this time, or if you want to trt training your dog on your own (a great way to bond), I'd suggest you https://bitly.im/aMRyL

A friend recommened it to me a few years ago, and I was amazed how quickly it worked, which is why I recommend it to others. The dog training academy also has as an excellent home training course.

Answer 8

A dog should be trained on how to eat, walk with you, not to bark, potty training and sleep on its place etc. You can teach anything to your puppy, dogs get trained easily with some good instructions. If you want some good training tips visit https://tr.im/4p1q5

If properly trained, they should also understand whistle and gesture equivalents for all the relevant commands, e.g. short whistle or finger raised sit, long whistle or flat hand lay down, and so on.

It's important that they also get gestures and whistles as voice may not be sufficient over long distances and under certain circumstances.

Answer 9

thats not borderline abuse it is abuse. I potty tran my dogs by attachingntheir leash to my belt loop. That way i catch them evertime they stat to squat, i then take them outside they go i praise them and give them a treat. I look for them to start showing signs of wanting to go potty every 2 hours. my dogs have been potty trained within 3 days everytime this way, and it was a grate way to leash train, potty train, and bond all at the same time. Also, it makes me angry to read what you wrote. If it is you please stop. The only time a dog should be in a crate for 8 hours is at bedtime, if not potty trained yet, or your traveling by airplane for 8 hours.

Answer 10

Yes, 8 hours a day in a crate is abusive. These morons shouldn't have a dog.