Pre-tribulation rapture??? this is for christians (what do you think of this?)?

Question

The second coming will be as in the days of Noah. In the days of Noah, the world was so corrupt that only eight were found worthy of even preserving. The flood came and took them all (evil ones) away because they were so corrupt they wouldn't listen to Noah's warnings to them. They went along doing as they pleased and were taken by surprise by the wrath of G-d poured upon them.

Likewise it will be when Yeshua returns. Two will be in a field; one taken, one left. Two will be grinding; one taken, one left. Readers, this is not a rapture being discussed here -- this is the dreadful day of the L-rd. Let me show you this same story in Luke:


"I say to you, in that night there will be two men sleeping in one bed, and one will be taken away and the other let go. Two women will be crushing grain together; one will be taken away and the other let go. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they, answering him, said, 'Where, Lord?' And he said to them, 'Where the body is, there the vultures come together'."
These people are taken to judgement -- to their deaths -- to be devoured by birds -- they are NOT being raptured. The disciples recognized this prophecy about the birds coming together, it's in Ezekiel 39:17-18:


"And you, son of man, this is what the Lord has said: Say to the birds of every sort and to all the beasts of the field, Get together and come; come together on every side to the offering which I am putting to death for you, a great offering on the mountains of Israel, so that you may have flesh for your food and blood for your drink.The flesh of the men of war will be your food, and your drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of sheep and lambs, of he-goats, of oxen, all of them fat beasts of Bashan."
It's repeated in Revelation 19:17-18 too:


"And I saw an angel taking his place in the sun; and he was crying with a loud voice, saying to all the birds in flight in the heavens, Come together to the great feast of God; So that you may take for your food the flesh of kings, and of captains, and of strong men, and of horses and of those who are seated on them, and the flesh of all men, free and unfree, small and great."
So the disciples understood the ones taken were taken to judgement -- it's not a dispensationalist pre-trib rapture being promised in the Olivet discourse, but a carnage.

If you read all of this, then i admire you :)

After i read all of this i thought my eyes would fall out.

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Pre-trib rapture teachers claim that Yeshua's 'appearing' is to secretly 'snatch away' the believers; and that His second 'coming' is when all see Him and He returns to publicly establish His kingdom. Sounds good, but will Scripture support this distinction between 'appearing' and second 'coming?'

Let's look at a couple 'appearing' verses:


"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Yeshua Messiah;" Titus 2:13
Seems the hope would be that much more blessed if one were going through The Tribulation rather than a time of peace, yes?


"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Yeshua Messiah, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom." 2 Timothy 4:1
Yeshua 'appears' here, but as a judge -- not to secretly snatch away believers! This 'appearing' cannot be anything other than the post-tribulation return of Yeshua.

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"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Yeshua Messiah." 1 Peter 1:7
"Tried by fire?" Here again, we see his 'appearing' referenced to a time following trials, being tried by fire. So much for the rapture 'escape' theory.

Likewise, the second-coming verses are completely linked to the rapture; it's not relegated to an event occurring some seven years later! let's look:

Answer 1

Well,I read it all and then I turned to my Bible beside me on the table here and read those passages you listed. If taken literally, then it certainly is a carnage being led by God and inviting others to partake. I truly can't imagine God actually doing that though. I do believe that every word in the Bible was written by the men God picked out and that it is the indisputable truth. I also know that Jesus taught by using parables which can be related to something more understood, not necessarily word for word of exact meaning. I am not a Bible scholar, but I am supposing that these words too are parables. The Revelations is very deep and hard to understand for me. I stopped trying to figure out lots of things like that long ago and I accept many things by faith, not concerning myself with total understanding or explanations to suit me. I believe that we are not to know all of the answers. If we did, then we would be as knowledgeable as God. If we were like that, I don't believe that we would give to God the awesome respect that He alone deserves. Just curious, are you a Christian? Or are you trying to find fault in God's word? May the peace that passes all understanding guard your heart and mind until the return of our Lord Jesus Christ, Amen. Shalom, my friend!

Answer 2

Hi, this is info straight from the manuscripts;
first of all, the end will be just the same as in the days of Noah, they will be giving and taking in marriage; who were they giving and taking in marriage to when Noahs Ark happened? To the Angels that left their habitation and came to seduce human women. Thats why the flood came; children were being born of those unions;
the flood was to destroy this influx of hybrids.
Okay - on to the rapture.
Its a complete non-truth, all of it. Mark 13 is a good chronological order of events that lead up to the return of Christ. You will find nothing listed there that indicates that any portion of the population will be missing. We are not going anywhere.
Where you read of the two grinding at the mill; one is taken, the other left? If you back up and capture the subject and object of what is being discussed, it is the Antichrist coming first, before the true Christ. The first one taken is taken by Antichrist. This is what makes the rapture theory so dangerous. When all these people who are biblically illiterate run after the first "jesus" who shows up, thinking he's here to rapture them out, they will be going with the devil himself. You want to be the one left working in the field. This is why in Mark 13, Christ himself tells you if they say God is there or here, don't go. This is why He tells us not to get harvested out of season. This is why Elijah 13:18 is God telling you that "He hates those who teach his children to fly to save their souls".

People think that the reason the church isn't mentioned after Chapter 3 in Revelation, its because they are raptured: not according to the manuscripts its not: the reason they aren't mentioned is because they are deceived, and not worthy to be called a "church". They are all falling over each other trying to worship and serve this fake Christ who is here.
Okay; about the vultures and the flesh:
The tribulation of Antichrist was shortened from 7 years, to a 5-month period, as told in Revelation 9; When the true Christ returns, all will be changed into the spiritual body - when we are, all that flesh will be lying around for the birds to eat. Since Antichrist only has a five month period, when Christ returns and we are in those spiritual bodies, its not gonna be a party for many, many people, because the mass majority will be devil worshippers. They will wish for rocks to fall on them rather than to have to face the true Christ.
Remember this: If "jesus" comes performing miracles and setting up an international government of Peace, IF YOU ARE STILL IN YOUR FLESH BODY, ITS THE FAKE. ITS ANTICHRIST.

Answer 3

there are two phases to the second coming of Christ. One is what we call the rapture where He comes as a thief in the night and takes the Church out of here....with a shout with the voice of the archangel and the trump of God, the dead in Christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (raptured) together to meet the Lord in the air (He doesn't come back to earth only in the air) and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The second phase is when He comes back to finish Armageddon. Here He does set His feet on the earth, every eye sees Him and He establishes His Kingdom on earth. It is here that the carnage occurs. Rev. 19:17-21. Some of the Scriptures you refer to go with one phase and some with the other phase. Paul teaches that the Church is not appointed to wrath which is the purpose of the Tribulation period. We are "saved" from it. I firmly believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture and expect it will be in my life time.

Answer 4

Here are 2 verses about the rapture. What will you say when it actually happens?

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thess, 4:16-18).

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality” (1 Cor. 15:51-53).

Answer 5

1 Thess. 4:16-17 - Paul writes that "we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Many Protestants call this experience the "rapture" (even though the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible, although is derived from the Latin vulgate of this verse – “rapiemur”). John 14:3; 1 Cor. 15:52 - these are other passages that Protestants use to support the rapture experience. The question Protestantism has raised is “when will the rapture occur?” They have developed three theories – (1) post-tribulation; (2) pre-tribulation; and, (3) mid-tribulation. We address these theories later on. But first, here is some more background.

Rev. 20:2-3; 7-8 – John sees the vision of an angel who seizes satan and binds him for a period of a thousand years. Protestants generally call this period of a thousand years the “millennium.” The “millennium” is a harbinger of the end of the world, and the theories of when the “rapture” will occur center around this period of time. We should also note that the “thousand years” language is part of apocalyptic literature and should not be interpreted literally. For example, in Psalm 50:10, we see the cattle on a "thousand hills." The word "thousand" here obviously means a lot of hills. In Dan. 7:10, a "thousand thousands" served him. Again, "thousand" means a lot. In 2 Peter 3:8, with God one day is a "thousand" years and a "thousand" years is one day. "Thousand" is symbolic for a long time. It is not to be taken literally.

There are three ways that Protestants interpret the meaning of the thousand year “millennium” (and the interpretation leads to answering when they think the rapture will occur).

(1) Post-millennialism – this view interprets the “thousand years” as a very long time. This view also holds that God’s kingdom is being advanced in the world by His grace and the world will eventually be Christianized. Then Christ will return at the close of this period during a time of righteousness and peace. The problem with this view is that the Scriptures do not teach that the world will be even relatively Christianized before the Second Coming. For example, in Matt. 13:24-30;36-43, Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.

(2) Pre-millenialism (also called “millenarianism”) – like post-millennialists, this view also interprets the “thousand years” as a golden age on earth when the world will be Christianized. But they believe that this period will occur after Christ’s second coming, during which time Christ will reign physically on earth. They believe the Final Judgment occurs when the millennium is over. But Scripture does not teach that there is a thousand year span between the Second Coming and Final Judgment. Instead, Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. Matt. 16:27. When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. Matt. 25:31-46. There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment.

(3) Amillennialism – this view also interprets the “thousand years” symbolically, but, ulike the pre and post views, not as a golden age on earth. This view believes the millennium is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16. During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. Rev. 20:3. This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the “strong man” (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. Matt. 12:29. This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.” Luke 10:18. Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. cf. 1 Peter 5:8. Of the three, this position is most consistent with Catholic teaching (the pre and post-millennium views have been rejected by the Church).

2 Thess. 2:1-4 – concerning the Second Coming of Christ, Scripture teaches (and most Protestants believe) that Christ’s coming will be preceded by a time of rebellion, lawlessness and persecution. Protestants often refer to this period as the “tribulation” (although the word “tribulation” cannot be found in the Scripture passages Protestants use to support the “rapture”). So the question is, when will the 1 Thess. 4:16-17 “rapture” occur, in light of the tribulation and Christ’s Second Coming? Here are the three theories previously mentioned:

(1) Post-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur right after the tribulation and immediately before the Second Coming of Christ. This view can be consistent with Scripture and Catholic teaching to the extent it holds that the rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together, after the tribulation and the Church Militant on earth. See, for example, Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thess. 1:1-12.

(2) Pre-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur before the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture before the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. In Heb. 9:28, it is clear that Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us. This view also is inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12 where the rapture and the Second Coming occur together.

(3) Mid-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it also requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture during the middle of the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. As seen in Heb. 9:28, Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. The view is also inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark. 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12.

2 Peter 3:8-15 – instead of worrying about when the rapture will occur, Christians should follow Peter’s instruction to repent of their sins, live lives of holiness and godliness, be zealous and at peace, and wait for the Lord’s coming with forbearance and joy!

Answer 6

I will wave at the world when I am Raptured into the arms of our loving Savior. The scriptures are very clear on this point, I pray you will not be caught unaware.
God Bless You...Peace.

Answer 7

There is "Pre-Trib", Mid-Trib" and "Post-Trib" each has their "valid" reasons. I not have to argue as I am a Child of God, and regardless of what I "want" to believe is not going to change what God will do. So, good luck on your beliefs, never know you may be right, and get that seat at the right hand of God.

Answer 8

You are correct. The rapture never did have any scriptural foundation. It was not taught by any churches until the latter 1800s and still is not and will not be taught by the older denominations.

Answer 9

No rapture at all, endure to the end till Jesus comes back

Answer 10

This is website from a pre-trib rapture viewpoint.You might find it interesting/helpful.
http://www.raptureready.com/rr-pretribulation-rapture.html