Baptism by immersion?

Question

For all of you who continue to claim that one can only be truly saved by baptism by immersion, answer me this:

What about the theif on the cross? The one who asked forgivness of Jesus and Jesus told him there was a place in heaven for him. I didn't see him jumping down from cross and running to the nearest river. Jesus didn't say - "I'd take you to heaven, but you haven't been immersed in water. Oops."

Sometimes it is not possible to be baptised - some people are 'saved' and do not have a chance. Some it is just not possible - chronically ill.

Nor did Jesus give guidelines to what baptism was supposed to entail. Show me where it says that - that it must be carried out a certain way or the person isn't saved.

Thank you for all those that actually answered the question. Your answers are exactly what I was getting at - it's not necessary.

For the one that said I should read my bible - pick it up and actually read it for yourself. The theif is right in there. If you bother to read it, and the actual instructions.

For the ones that say that baptism is necessary because Jesus did - reread your bible. Jesus wasn't baptised for the reason people are baptised today.

Tim: Baptism is in no way the first obedience. The first obedience is to repent.

Tim - the bible verses you quoted:

1. Paul was talking about baptism by the Holy Spirit

2. The others do not talk about baptism.

It seems a common practice to make the bible say what one wants it to say.

Answer 1

Yes, you are correct. People get caught up in this whole sprinkle/immerse water baptism nonsense. Water Baptism is symbolic...It is your public acknowledgment of your belief in Christ.
Water baptism doesn't save you!! It is God's response that saves you. God reads hearts and minds and sends His Holy Spirit to reside within a true believer....this is when you become saved!

People that say someone needs water baptism in order to be saved do not understand salvation. Sure it is good and right to get baptized with water, but it most certainly is not essential. It is baptism with the Holy Spirit that is confirmation of your salvation.

Answer 2

Jesus did not give details?

The details are in the definition of the word "Baptism." This was a Greek word that was brought directly into the English language from the New Testament Greek.

Frieburg's Lexicon: "dip, immerse in water;"

From secular writing, we see the word βαπτισω used when the craftsmen dyed the fabric. To get the dye in the cloth was βαπτισω(ed); it was immersed into the fabric completely in order to get the dye throughout the fabric.

Note that this soaking in the dye was not just a surface thing, but it permeated the fibers of the cloth.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

You do not bury something by sprinkling some dirt over the top. You put the old man under. Baptism is symbolic, but it is commanded by Jesus; Jesus gave the example in performance also.

John 15:10
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love."

John 15:14
"You are My friends if you do what I command you."

Baptism is the believers first obedience! refusing to be obedient in baptism shows that the person most likely was never saved in the first place. No, baptism does not save you. However, it does demonstrate your willingness to be obedient to Jesus' command, which indicates that you are infact saved!

Answer 3

First, I'd want to know your definition of "saved"....

My experience is that those who claim to be "saved" are simply those who have felt God's Spirit once or twice.

To me, being "saved" is a much longer, more involved process. The process of becoming saved is the process of changing ourselves into the kinds of men and women God wants us to be (1 Corinthians 13) There is also a change of heart- repentance is not complete unless there is a visible change in behavior.

Regarding why Jesus was baptized... He told his cousin John the Baptist that He needed to be baptized, "to fulfill all righteousness" (Mathew 3:15)... So if He needed to be baptized, why shouldn't we? His whole life was an example for us to follow, and I feel that example includes being baptized.

John 3:23 discusses why John was baptizing where he did... "because there was much water there..." Why would he need "much water" if he were just sprinkling?.... Do you think that maybe he was baptizing by immersion? If baptism by immersion is the way Jesus chose to be baptized, far be it for me to choose a different way. (Mathew 7:13,14).

Regarding those who die without being baptized... like the thief-- In 1 Corinthians 15, verse 29, there's a mention of some people being baptized for the dead.... I think that this type of proxy baptizing for (NOT of) the dead is an acceptable method of baptism. If done in the appropriate fashion (by immersion), through the correct authority, by those who are worthy, it becomes valid and available to those who have died.

BTW- The word "baptize" comes from a Greek word that means to immerse... Do you really think that's a coincidence? There's a reason for EVERYTHING that God has commanded, and it is not our place to change (corrupt) that.

Answer 4

Baptism is necessary for salvation. The immersion in water and then resurrection coming up out of the water for resurrection life is a picture or symbol of salvation. The true or real immersion is actually descending into death and then returning from death into eternal life. The sacrament of baptism is only a picture and is not necessary for salvation as that is purchased by the blood of Christ and that is all sufficient. We are commanded to be baptized, as our obedience reflects Christ's obedience, following the Fathers word. Christ was baptized into death on the cross through obedience to the Father. He arose the 3rd day. Our obedience to God is also to death, as the blood of millions of martyrs testifies.

Answer 5

I have not read other answers yet, but I hope that seeing multiple variations might help lend support to the following view.

Baptism is important not just because Jesus did it, though that should be sufficient reason. But, Jesus himself told us to do it in the "great commission."

Matthew 28

The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

I will say that I do not necessarily believe it is a saving point of grace as you have already explained the thief on the cross. Nor do I believe the amount of water used is significant. Also, Paul got miffed because people were setting a hierarchy based on who did the Baptism.

It is a profession of faith or as my Pastor says symbolically bury ourselves with Christ in a watery grave. It is also the sign of Jonah (I believe) as it was in the water where he came to his ultimate realization that he needed to forsake all of his ideas for the only one that matters and that would be to obey God and trust in him alone.

In the past believers could have been killed for being seen in public professing Christ in Baptism. Today not so, but when one stands before others it gives us pause. Do we really believe? Others will now know without a shadow of a doubt what you profess and will watch to see if the vine bears fruit or not. I believe we need it first on the base ritual sense and also the act of a vow or covenant. When I was Baptised I truley felt I became part of something greater and a contract was formed.

Answer 6

I am a strong Baptist so therefore I don't believe that you don't have to be baptised to be saved. The thief on the cross is a prime example of that. As far as guidelines...I do believe that the proper way is baptism by immersion.
Heres some scripture:
-Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life......Immersion is a symbolism of Christ being buried (under the water) and rising again (out of the water).

that's all i could find off the top of my head...hope it helps! :)

Answer 7

i'm of the belief that baptizing is essential for salvation. however, i do understand that there are those out there that don't see it my way. so with that said i'll continue. i believe that Jesus was a model for us to follow and a true example of how christians should live their lives, so if Jesus was baptized, so i too, should be baptized. remember, God descended as a dove after Jesus's baptizim saying "this is my Son in whom i am well pleased" another instance of baptizim is the ethiopian eunich who after reading the book of isaiah turned to philip and said"Here is water, what hinders me from being baptized" and the most concrete evidence is found in Acts 2:38 and in Mark 16:16 where the phrase is repent AND be baptized, not repent OR be baptized. Concerning your question about the thief on the cross...remember who it was forgiving him. Jesus. The son of God. He had power over heaven and earth and is the only one worthy to forgive without the process of baptizem. Actually i found your sarcastism a little offensive but that's ok concerning your frustration about the subject. Reguarding those to ill to be baptized, we should always be prepared to meet God. Recall the story of the foolish and wise virgins in the bible. those ready to meet the prince (Jesus) were rewarded with life with him. those not prepared were left outside the gates in the dark and alone. we can't predict the future so it's important to give your life to Christ while you're healthy so you'll be ready if a chronic illness happens. i work in a hospital and believe me there are still ways to immerse a person chronically ill or not. However, i don't know the depth of the grace of God but I DO know that i'd rather die being baptized to find out i didn't need to be than die not being baptized and finding out i DID need it to enter into eternal life. Jesus did give guidelines to how to be baptized...through His example. Jews have always practiced baptizem...jews were the only people of their time to practice regular cleansing and cities were built specifically with pools deep enough for the jews to completely submerge themselves. a jew not completely covering their entire body with water were still considered unclean. Baptizem showed the covenent between God and His people and Jesus was a Jew therefore baptizem is a covenent between Christians and God, anyway, this cleansing translated into the Greek language as "baptizo" or immersion, or burial and this is what Jesus asked John the Baptist to do to him...and this is the act that was pleasing to God. i'll stop rambling now hope this helps...and relax questioning aspects of your faith is an important step to becoming Christlike we all go through it. i do want to urge you to study the bible for yourself...don't rely on anything a man in a pulpit may say...remember he's human and capable of messing up.

Answer 8

Baptism does absolutely nothing for your salvation. Nothing.

It is a physical sign that a believer has accepted Jesus - a sign of something that has already happened.

To those who would demand immersion - I would ask why your churches have an indoor, heated baptismal tank - all those baptisms in the Bible were done outdoors, in lakes, rivers, and perhaps even ditches. Your indoor baptism is contrary to the examples you cite as required.

Oh - I should mention, I was baptized, full immersion in a freshwater lake.

Answer 9

Let me say this straight, baptism cannot and will not save a person. You are correct when you pointed out the thief in the cross, Jesus did not tell the thief to come down from there and be baptized bit instead said to him " Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43) If baptism is the one that can save a person then what did Christ died for in the cross. Jesus Christ himself was baptized (Matt. 3:13-17). Does it mean that He needs to do that to be saved, no because He has no sin and He is the Redeemer, the one who came to seek and save that which is lost. You are being baptized not to be saved but because you are saved. In the book of Acts when the Phillippian jailer asked Paul and Silas of what he should do to be saved, they did not tell him to be baptized but instead said "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved and thy house."

When I say baptism has nothing to do with a person salvation it does not mean that it is not important, again why will Jesus Christ himself be baptized if it has no meaning and relevance. In the Bible there a lot of verses that shows why as a believer we should do it, the scriptural meaning, mode and message conveyed by the ordinance of baptism is in the Holy Written Word of God - the Bible.

Answer 10

Hi, sorry I just saw your question. I belong to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We do believe in baptism by immersion and it is a necessary step in salvation. However there are two key points you are missing. One, we participate in baptisms for the dead who we believe accepted the gospel beyond this life. And second, there are three different degrees of heaven. You can still get to heaven without being baptized in our gospel. Hope this helps you out. Thanks