Another question about Jesus' sacrifice?

Question

So, other than the "you couldn't handle it" responses, there were a few themes in the answers:
1. Somehow, dying for sins is more painful than just regular dying.
2. Somehow, Jesus' death by torture was the most painful torture ever...more so even than christians doled out to heretics, heathens, and others during the inquisition.
3. People only sacrifice themselves for other people who are "good", never the bad ones too.

Obviously, these don't make any sense.
For example, is there any reason why it's more painful if you die as an atonement for others sins, rather than just dying?
Lots of people have been whipped to death. Was their death less painful because they weren't messiahs?

Doug - I'm glad you're hear to answer such questions. Well, I guess that about settles it, everybody.

Answer 1

Good questions.

1. I actually 100% agree with this one. Think of it this way. Do you remember when you were a kid and you did something wrong, like maybe stole something, or hurt someone and you felt really, really horrible for what you did because your conscience kicked in? Well, now imagine someone with a perfect conscience, to whom even the smallest white lie would be like nails on a chalkboard, taking on the whole mankind's wrongdoings. A person who knew no guilt because He actually didn't do anything wrong, ever, now felt the guilt for all the murders, rapes, and all other sorts of horrible crimes people commit. How overwhelmingly depressing, how horrifying would it be for someone innocent to come to know all these atrocities and feel their weight on His shoulders?

Oh, and then there's the whole separation from God the Father piece to it. Jesus was in perfect tune with His Father. He spoke with Him through prayers, made sure that every single action He took was pleasing to the Father. But then, when He was on the cross, after being in a huge amount of physical pain, then having the weight of the world's guilt thrust upon Him, He then had to deal with the fact that He was so covered with sin that even His only person that truly supported Him, His own Father, had to turn away and could not even hear His cries.

So He was tortured physically, than had all the sins of mankind shoveled on Him, then had to deal with the ultimate abandonement issues (how do you deal when your closest family members don't want to see you and oh, God doesn't want you either? - yeah, kind of a toughie, right?).

2. You're totally right on this one, from the physical point, Jesus' suffering, while absolutely horrible, was surely not the worst physical suffering inflicted on a person, it's the rest of the stuff that made His suffering so unbearable.

3. You're right, dying for someone doesn't automatically make them good.

There are three possible people who will willingly sacrifice themselves.
A). An evil person, who is so evil that they will die to cause people more suffering, like a suicide bomber who is not doing it for religion, he's just doing it because he hates the world. But here's the thing, are they dying for others? Or dying to satisfy their own selfishness? So, because of this, I don't think "evil" is an option here.
B). A lunatic, someone who thinks they are hearing the voice of God, or they think somehow dying will make the world better, even if it's just a deranged dream of some sort. There certainly are people out there who think Jesus was just a crazy guy. There were some people like that then and there are still some now.
C). A good person who will willingly lay down their life for the benefit of others. It is the ultimate sacrifice and the ultimate way to serve someone (being willing to literally do anything to make someone's life better is the ultimate service to them).

So I'd conclude that the person would have to either be crazy or good to sacrifice themselves for others. There is nothing that I see from what Jesus did and taught to make Him seem crazy, but there are many things in His teachings and actions that show a great love for people and concern for their wellbeing, both physical and spiritual. So based on that, it would be logical to say that yes, at least in Jesus' case, sacrificing Himself for others makes Him the good guy.

Hope these helped. Sorry for the long explanations. Drop me a line if you want to continue the discussion. Take care.

Answer 2

You missed the point. You claimed that because Jesus's death wasn't "permanent" that somehow He made no sacrifice for mankind. The fact that He suffered immensely shows that there WAS a sacrifice made.

You are also missing the concept of suffering for sins. I notice that you forgot to mention the torturing that was doled out by non-christians upon early christians. Most of the christian population was killed and suffered brutal persecution.

You are also missing the entire point of the atonement - that it is for ALL mankind, both the good and the evil.

Obviously these do make sense...even though you're just not getting it. Or at least...you're making a good show of "not getting it".

Answer 3

Jesus Christ was an innocent Lamb. In the O.T. the remission of sins was by the shedding of innocent blood of pure, unblemished,clean animals, preferrably lambs. In the N.T. God Himself came in the body of man. The virgin birth. Jesus Christ was both Divine and flesh. He was the invisible God made visible through Jesus Christ. He was the innocent lamb that took upon Himself the final Blood Sacrifice to redeem all of mankind. We are all forgiven of our sins if we follow His Plan of Salvation in Acts 2:38. We are all born with a sinful nature and have to have that removed. St. John 3:5. When we repent and go down into the water in the name of Jesus Christ, we will have all of our sins forgiven,then He will give us His Spirit to overcome our sin nature. We know that we have it when our Spirit speaks in a language that our mind can't understand. Acts 2:4, 10:45-46, 19:6, St. Mark 16:16-17. To get more information about the Inquisition I would suggest reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs. You will find that the Roman Catholic Church was responsible for the deaths of many Christians in their day. The original Church was called Catholic, but when Constatine legalized the Christian Church, guess what, it got polluted with man's traditions and was so far removed from the original purpose, they started persecuting the "heretics and anyone else that didn't believe in their idolotry! Which was the Christians.

Answer 4

1. Somehow, dying for sins is more painful than just regular dying.


Yes.

It's spiritual, physical, mental, not just physical.


2. Somehow, Jesus' death by torture was the most painful torture ever...more so even than christians doled out to heretics, heathens, and others during the inquisition.

Yes... dying for the entires world's eternal damnation would be a bit more severe.

3. People only sacrifice themselves for other people who are "good", never the bad ones too.

Not Jesus.

All are invited

Answer 5

I wrestle with your question at times too. The thing is that Jesus has full intimacy with the Father (not a dirty statement) and during His crucifixion, God the Father turned His back on the Son, because He can not look at sin with love. So, really, the pain was the first ever experience of separation from the Father. It was the reason for the exclamation "Eloi, Eloi, lamasabacthani?" (My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?).

Answer 6

The atonement of Jesus Christ will loose us of sin. there's a qualification that we settle for forgiveness in the process the approach stated as repentance. Repentance includes restitution. there's no thank you to make restitution for homicide. i think of that replaced into the factor the prophets have been attempting to get in the process. i in my view have faith that a murderer won't be forgiven by potential of a demise mattress repentance. I do have faith that there is desire for the only that spends the the remainder of his existence as a sacrifice for his strikes. Father is the two in simple terms and forgiving.

Answer 7

"But Jesus took on the sins of the world..." etc.

Dogmatic lemmings.

Answer 8

Keep it simple....or are you looking a promotion, like Lucifer?