And how it relates to your functioning as a Jehovah's Witness in daily life ? Thanks in advance for all answers.
2007-03-05
02:21:43
·
4 answers
·
asked by
Carlito
3
in
Society & Culture
➔ Religion & Spirituality
Is the following an example of "theocratic war strategy ?
http://www.ajwrb.org/basics/perjury.shtml
2007-03-05
19:50:54 ·
update #1
If the last time that the term "theocratic war strategy" was used by a WT writer was in 1968, does it mean that the principle is no longer employed by JW's ?
2007-03-05
19:58:39 ·
update #2
Just for the record, I would like to state that being persecuted for religious belief does not necessarily validate the belief itself. People from many religious & political groups are, and have been persecuted down the centuries.
Also, in many parts of the world, true Christians are persecuted for their faithful witness to the Lord Jesus Christ. Particularly in countries such as China, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, & Northern Nigeria.
Just to dispel the possible misconception that it is only ever JW's who suffer religious persecution.
Even on Yahoo! Answers I have read questions of the sort, "Why do people hate JW's so much ?" and so on, as if they are the only religious group on YA that receives abuse with the inference being that therefore they are the "true" Christians. Just go thru some of the Q's & A's directed to born - again Christian's to see that the abuse is most certainly not exclusive to JW's...
2007-03-06
05:32:39 ·
update #3
Actung - did you click on the link ? Did any JW for that matter ? Comments ?
Did the WT lie to the European Commision or was it just "theocratic war strategy" ?
2007-03-06
05:35:57 ·
update #4
Sasi - thanks for your input.
I have to say that if I were the secretary in that hypothetical situation mentioned, I would certainly be moved to take action. To stand idly by and watch a dear sister in the Lord commit such a grievous sin as the murder of an unborn child, would be totally wrong. Even if it meant betraying patient confidence & breaking my employment contract, that would easily be the lesser of the two evils. I would employ the biblical principle of confronting sin in a fellow believer as outlined in Matthew 18:15 - 17. I would first go to the sister in Christian love & with sensitivity, in order to gently point out the seriousness of her potential sin & to correct her on it. If she did not respond positively, then I would probably return with another sister to try to help her see sense. If there was still no positive response, THEN I would make the matter known to the elders of the church. So, I have to say that I agree (!) with the WT reasoning on that...
2007-03-06
19:41:56 ·
update #5
...particular issue, in principle, if not in manner of execution.
Another hypothetical situation - If I were hiding persecuted Christians wanted by the authorities simply for practicing their faith, and I knew that they were in danger of torture and/or execution if captured and the authorities came to my house, enquiring of their whereabouts, I WOULD LIE. Again, it would be the lesser of the two evils as far as I am concerned. Didn't Rahab do the same when hiding the Israelite spies, and in Hebrews she was commended for her FAITH (but NOT her lying) ?
However, the situation with the Watchtower having apparently lied to the European Commision of Human Rights concerning their blood policy (click on link) is a different matter, I feel. No lives (unborn or otherwise) were at stake here. Could not Jehovah have made a way for "His Visible Organisation" to receive official recognition as a religion without the WT engaging in such deception ? If the WT teaching on blood is truly...
2007-03-06
19:53:25 ·
update #6
...from God, then isn't this apparent denial of WT policy regarding the consequences for those witnesses who take blood transfusions tantamount to a denial of Jehovah's "truth" ? Again, have any witnesses who are SINCERELY seeking God's truth clicked on the link ? Can you disprove these allegations ? Or are you - with all due respect - just BLINDLY following the Governing Body without testing them & what they teach, as God's word commands ? (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
2007-03-06
19:58:24 ·
update #7
In regard to the change in policy on blood (& other JW teachings) over the years, it would appear that "Jehovah", through his alleged "Visible Organisation", sure seems to change his mind a lot...
Of course, our great God and Saviour displays no such inconsistency and neither does His word, the Bible. The inconsistency is on the part of an apostate organisation of self - appointed, fallible, spiritually unregenerate men who have been used by Satan to misguide many sincere souls into subscribing to a "salvation by works" pseudo -gospel. May God have mercy on them.
2007-03-07
19:47:55 ·
update #8
Joel C -
Hi there.
With all due respect, I disagree in regard to your comments that I would be better off obtaining information from another source rather than from ajwrb.
I think that by using this source, it shows that - contrary to the usual WT representation - there is not complete unity among the ranks of "God's Visible Organisation". Does the use of information from a dissenting Witness group invalidate the authenticity of the article ? Witnesses can feel free to refute the information listed on the site, if they wish.
In regard to JW's being turned from their erroneous beliefs - GOD IS ABLE. No one can come to Jesus unless He draws them (John 6:44). All Christians can do is continue to contend for the true faith, as Jude exhorted in his epistle. The rest is in the almighty hands of our sovereign & omnipotent heavenly Father.
Blessings.
2007-03-07
19:57:45 ·
update #9
Joel C -
Hi.
In regard to questioning people in positions of religious "authority" -
"Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses." (1 Timothy 5:19).
Therefore, the scripture clearly shows that it IS permitted to question the conduct of and to bring to account those in positions of leadership.
To not question is, I'm sorry to say, clear evidence of a cult mentality.
2007-03-08
20:13:51 ·
update #10
The 1 Sept 1988 Watchtower mag has an article, "Stand Firm Against Satan's Machinations" which uses Eph 6:11 as its theme text. The phrase 'theocratic war strategy' is not used but it advises JWs on how to be alert to Satan's tactics to thwart them. It wisely advises them to be honest about their own personality faults that Satan could use against them, so to "examine ourselves". Putting on the whole armour of God is exhorted, praying constantly and standing firm in the truth. This is all excellent counsel.
However, exactly a year earlier another Watchtower mag appeared to advise JWs to manipulate the principle of honesty. A hypothetical situation was developed where a JW medical secretary was expected (by the JW writers) to breach her contract of employment requirement to respect patient confidentiality by informing JW elders of a JW patient having an abortion. This, despite acknowledging she might lose her job, be sued and cause her employers legal problems. This was not described as 'theocratic war strategy' but it was a strategy to help an apparent sinner and to enable the congregation's purity to be preserved. The ideas presented could no doubt be used for other situations (eg when a JW accepted certain blood components, or attended worship services of another denomination). This raises serious questions about ethics and honesty when a perceived "spiritual threat" is spotted by JWs.
Edit: I should have said the Wt. article hypothetical situ had the JW lady as having HAD an abortion; she'd paid the bill for it. So the dastardly deed was done. No chance of saving an innocent life at all. The situ was all about punnishment of an offender and 'protecting' the congregation from her.
The Bulgarian matter: In March 1998 the WtSoc entered into a legally binding agreement in order to be re-registered as an official religion in Bulgaria. It promised to include in its statue provision for its members to have free choice in the matter of blood without any control or sanction on the part of the WtSoc. I do not know if that amendment has been made in WtSoc statutes. There is now a slight change re. sanctions against those who act out of accordance with WtSoc "guidance" re. medical blood treatments.
One change is that the WtSoc will no longer disfellowship a member who accepts "disapproved" blood treatments "in a moment of weakness" AND THEN REPENTS of having done that. The second change is that those who accept WITHOUT REPENTING will "merely" be considered as having disassociated themselves. On the surface this appears to be removal of a severe sanction. Is it?
When people understand how slight the difference is between disfellowshipping, and viewing a person as having disassociated themselves, it becomes clear that sanctions still apply in practice (if not in theory). Read the Watchtower 15 April 1991, pp 22-23 & 15 April 1988 pp 26-29 for how shunning tactics apply almost equally to both groups.
Of course, the WtSoc is only legally bound to guarantee freedom from sanctions to its Bulgarian members. If the Bulgarian agreement IS being honoured, then the issue is that other JWs are lagging behind in terms of true freedom from fear of sanctions. Control is still being applied to other JWs until the Soc states in writing that ALL shunning and sanctions must stop. They say they have written to all elders world-wide - what about rank & file members? Are they told by hospital liaison elders BEFORE considering blood treatments that if they take "disapproved" ones but then repent afterwards, nothing will happen? How many rank & file JWs know how to walk this tightrope without falling off? All the Bulgarian ones but no others? More than a year after the Bulgarian agreement the Watchtower contained articles about refusing blood with no mention of any freedom from sanctions (Wt 15 June 2000 pp 29-31 & Awake! 8 Jan). Now there has been more clarity. But the likelihood of any JWs logging on to the site you mention is remote. This is an Association of Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on Blood and is "banned" by the WtSoc. (I am not a member of the AJWRB but God bless them!) No JW can admit to logging on without fear of sanctions! And if their doings on this site are being tracked they know they must not log on! I'll be astonished if any more JWs contribute answers to your question!
2007-03-06 04:35:23
·
answer #1
·
answered by Anonymous
·
2⤊
2⤋
Jehovah's witnesses won't click on that link if they know what it's about b/c it's what they call an apostate site.
"Official web site for associated Jehovah's witnesses for reform on blood"
The name of this site lets me know two things. First that the creators operantly consider themselves Jehovah's witnesses who want a change in the blood policy or associate themselves with Jehovah's witnesses.
Either way these people are hypocrites b/c how can they associate themselves with an organization that they consider corrupt. Secondly the web site only has one goal and is not unbiased.
You would do better by getting this information from a general non religious and secular web site.
This is just as bad as getting information about the Mormons from Catholics. What type of answer would you expect?
EDIT
"Intense pressure and public exposure in many countries by AJWRB has led to another tactical move by the Watchtower Society. In the spring of 2000, the Watchtower Society secretly advised elders to quit disfellowshiping members who accepted blood transfusions."
I also wanted to respond to this b/c it's stupid. I know Jehovah's witnesses and whenever one of them has a surgery all of them know about it. It's not possible for the elders to be the only ones to know about the transfusion b/c the patient and the doctors would also know and whomever the patient decides to tell about it. In the end this would only make things worse.
When my dad was a political prisoner in Cuba there where Jehovah's witnesses in prison with him.
My point is if torture and relentless persecution didn't get them to change there views it's un likely some minuscule unknown organization like the "AJWRB" would do any better.
EDIT2:
"there is not complete unity among the ranks of "God's Visible Organisation".
You didn't notice that I didn't say they were witnesses.
By saying they consider themselves witnesses means that they could be excommunicated, but still claim to be witnesses.
Something that adds to this argument is the fact they question the authority of there governing body.
All organized religions have a governing body whether they call it that or not.
With out a specific group governing them there will be chaos. There's also no reason for them to be part of the religion if they don't consider that it is being led by God. It's like a Catholic saying the Vatican is misleading people.
EDIT3:
"In regard to the change in policy on blood (& other JW teachings) over the years, it would appear that "Jehovah", through his alleged "Visible Organisation", sure seems to change his mind a lot...
Of course, our great God and Saviour displays no such inconsistency and neither does His word, the Bible. The inconsistency is on the part of an apostate organisation of self - appointed, fallible, spiritually unregenerate men who have been used by Satan to misguide many sincere souls into subscribing to a "salvation by works" pseudo -gospel. May God have mercy on them."
Operantly your letting your own personal feelings come through.
Personally I prefer it when a religion learns instead of sticking to false beliefs. Something so many religions have been unwilling to do. Obviously the more you study the scriptures the greater your understanding becomes.
EDIT4:
"In regard to JW's being turned from their erroneous beliefs - GOD IS ABLE."
True, if he wanted too he would let them fall to human persucution.
2007-03-07 12:55:09
·
answer #2
·
answered by Joel C 3
·
0⤊
2⤋
This godly principle can be summed up in a single phrase from the words of Jesus himself:
(Matthew 10:16) Prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves
The bible repeatedly reminds its readers that Satan and Satanic agents are at war against true Christians on earth.
(Ephesians 6:11-13) Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. On this account take up the complete suit of armor from God, that you may be able to resist
(1 Peter 5:8,9) Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone. But take your stand against him
Satan has no compunctions about using a Christian's good nature against the cause of true worship. So, both the bible and Jehovah's Witness publications have had to remind each Christian that his naive helpfulness could be manipulated by the enemies of God.
(Matthew 10:5,16) Jesus sent forth, giving them these orders: ...“Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves.
The Scriptural idea is that information need not be volunteered to the enemies of God; this does not in any way condone actual lying. For example, when (not if) a KGB interrogator tortured a Witness and asked where his brothers were, the Witness could conscientiously insist that he 'did not know'; the Witness would not be compelled to offer a list of possible addresses.
(Matthew 10:16-18) Prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. Be on your guard against men; for they will deliver you up to local courts, and they will scourge you in their synagogues. Why, you will be haled before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations.
Of course, no human Witness of Jehovah would ever plan an elaborate scheme of deception. The Scriptures teach there would be no need for that, and the experiences of tens of thousands of Witnesses in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia validate Jesus' words.
(Matthew 10:16,19,20) Prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves... However, when they deliver you up, do not become anxious about how or what you are to speak; for what you are to speak will be given you in that hour; for the ones speaking are not just you, but it is the spirit of your Father that speaks by you.
Christians also understand that they are under no obligation to offer themselves for persecutory arrest, but are authorized by God to "flee". Once in custody, however, a Witness would not rebel against the authority of a secular government to incarcerate or execute according to its human "laws".
(Matthew 10:16,23) Prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves... When they persecute you in one city, flee to another
While the fall of communism certainly lessened the persecution in those lands, sadly Jehovah's Witnesses continue to be banned in countries such as Singapore.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71357.htm
Other countries which may officially tolerate Jehovah's Witnesses still find pretexts upon which to harass them and interfere with their Christian worship.
http://jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm
Thus it seems that Christians must continue to follow the advice of their head, Jesus Christ:
(Matthew 10:16) Prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves
2007-03-05 08:48:52
·
answer #3
·
answered by achtung_heiss 7
·
3⤊
5⤋
Obviously THEY can't!
'-)
2007-03-05 02:25:41
·
answer #4
·
answered by Anonymous
·
2⤊
5⤋