To all creationists, can we please have a logical reasoned debate?

Question

I would really like to have an intelligent informed debate about creationism. I think it is an interesting topic, and it is enjoyable to discuss. Unfortunately it does not seem to be addressed here.

Can i Please refer you to the question at

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070303224931AAAvn7X&r=w

It's another one of my questions. If the link doesn't work, scroll down! thanks!

Answer 1

I would like to have a logical and reasonable debate. I would like to hear someone tell me that the theory of evolution as proposed by Charles Darwin is now scientific law...although historians tell us he recanted on his death bed. I would like to hear someone who does not believe in intelligent design have an open mind to consider the possibilities. Creationists tend to offer things which contradict each other, because they don't understand the Bible. They think they do...I believe they don't have open minds to new truths. I believe the creation idea...but I believe this without believing that there is a place called Hell where bad people burn forever and ever...that totally takes logic out of the picture. There is more to it than Moses' story...and not so much to it that I have enough faith to believe that this was all a big accident. Chaos does not bring about life, but destruction. Intelligence brings about the amazing thing called life...someday we will understand that human origins might have come from superior life designs. What came before that? We may not know in this lifetime. In our beginning...God created.

Answer 2

Based solely on what you believe is correct, yes? Isn't that a bit closed minded of you? You want to say that creationists are close minded, and refuse to use scientific evidence, but are you just as willing to accept that scientists could be wrong? Case in point, we all knew, and most scierntists agreed that there was this huge meteor that hit the earth and wiped out all of the dinosaurs. It was believed to be true, and to even suggest anything else was ludicrous. It was as they said it was, absolute fact, a meteor did in the dinosaurs, PERIOD Well, it seems that there is new evidence and the same scientists are now saying, nope, that wasn't it. We're not sure but in our pontification, well, we never did really mean that the meteor thing was the only way, and our new ideas are the right ones. So, which is right, the belief of 20 or so years ago, or what is believed now? It seems that the debate rages on, and no one really knows the true answer. So, if your established scientists can't agree and maintain it for, say 100 years or more, then how can we have a truly logical debate? It seems to me that the debate would be to defend what doesn't need to be defended, and would only produce the further realization that we just are not going to agree on a whole lot of anything. Like the Greeks, you want knowledge, and nothing else will do. Why? From chaos it is believed that order has come into being. That said, does not our scientific reasoning deny that? Theories of creation of life, every one that has been set forth has someone else come along, from the scientific community, mind you, and shows that it isn't feasible. With so many points of debate raging in the scientific world as to who is right, and who is not, with "religion", and the Bible left completely out of the question, shouldn't there be conclusion and accepted collaboration in the scientific community before taking on any creationist point of view?

Answer 3

Yes, I can see what you mean. People get very emotional over this issue regardless of which side they are on because they see it as a threat to their belief system...either way. I am a believer in God but do not feel threatened over the creation issue because I know that God is real and I don't pretend to know how or even why he did everything he did. However, I do have some interesting theories (and that is all I claim them to be) about how things might have been. They are definately not main stream Christian but then the call I have from God is not the typical mainstream either. At least I don't believe that it is. I will take a few minutes and send you an e mail that explains my position. Perhaps it will give you some food for thought. Thank you.

Answer 4

Hi, I had a quick look at the link to your other question, in which you actually ask several different and very valid questions.

To have a proper sensible debate on creation/evolution in my mind I think it is necessary first of all, for everyone to accept the following...

Creationists and evolutionists, Christians and non-Christians all have the same evidence—the same facts. Think about it: we all have the same earth, the same fossil layers, the same animals and plants, the same stars—the facts are all the same.

The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts. And why do we interpret facts differently? Because we start with different presuppositions. These are things that are assumed to be true, without being able to prove them. These then become the basis for other conclusions. All reasoning is based on presuppositions (also called axioms). This becomes especially relevant when dealing with past events.

We all exist in the present—and the facts all exist in the present. When one is trying to understand how the evidence came about (Where did the animals come from? How did the fossil layers form? etc.), what we are actually trying to do is to connect the past to the present.

However, if we weren’t there in the past to observe events, how can we know what happened so we can explain the present? It would be great to have a time machine so we could know for sure about past events.

Christians of course claim they do, in a sense, have a ‘time machine’. They have a book called the Bible which claims to be the Word of God who has always been there, and has revealed to us the major events of the past about which we need to know.

On the basis of these events (Creation, Fall, Flood, Babel, etc.), we have a set of presuppositions to build a way of thinking which enables us to interpret the evidence of the present.

Evolutionists have certain beliefs about the past/present that they presuppose, e.g. no God (or at least none who performed acts of special creation), so they build a different way of thinking to interpret the evidence of the present.

Thus, when Christians and non-Christians argue about the evidence, in reality they are arguing about their interpretations based on their presuppositions.

This statement was taken from a website

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

It is a Christian website which addresses the questions you asked or similar from a Christian and scientific perspective. It might be worth a look, fair enough it will not be a debate but it will certainly give you the argument/s from a SENSIBLE Christian perspective

JB

Answer 5

to at least answer your previous question about the Grand Canyon. If you notice new developments around your town you will notice that the newly planned subdivisions have no grass. This no grass leads to soil erosion. Soil erosion is noticed in that the tops to the soil are rounded. The soil is not compacted, therefore washes away during rain. The grand canyon on the other hand has sharp distinctions between the top and the sides of the canyon. If water was to run off the earth, as supposed by the bible, then tops of the canyon would be rounded instead of sharp.

Answer 6

You are probably talking to literal 7 day creationists from what I saw on your other question. That's not me.

Personally I think God set of the initial conditions of the universe and thus controls the outcomes. He's seems to like an orderly universe and rarely scews with the physics of the universe. I think he did set up some very odd and miraculous events from the beginning.

I assume he has more dimensions to work with than we do and may permeate our universe in some undetected dimension.

Logical and reasonable - no
Debatable - Yes.

Answer 7

What I find to be amazing is that any one would think that the "creative days" were actually 24 hour periods! The "day" mentioned stands for a period of creative time...they were never intended to be translated literally into 24 hour periods or any exact measurement, other than whatever time each "day" took...be it millions or billions of years, each "day" had a specific function in creation of the earth and its atmosphere and what is on the earth. There are verses in the Bible that say "a day to God is as a thousand years to man", so obviously "day" in this circumstance refers to a very long period of time. God is very organized and very reasonable as well...too bad some seem to not be able to reason at all! (or maybe have never really checked into what the Bible says...really)

Answer 8

sure ... i have alot of theories that do not deny the creation of the present life and ecosystem on earth by an intelligent being .... oil came from somewhere ... the bible says the earth was dark and void and water covered much of the land .... hey backs up much observed in the fossil record ... i believe there was a previous creation on earth .... i believe a cataclysm ended that ecosystem ... maybe an asteroid strike .... also backed up by science .... i dont even deny that there may be some degree of evolution .... but i do not count out that this present ecosystem as we know it with its various life forms was inteligently designed ... to throw everything as just "evolution" is ludicrous and science performed with wanton carelessness ...

Answer 9

A logical reasoned debate of Creationism

You are kidding right?

Listen to what a Christian said about anti-evolution:

"Oh, for cryin' out loud!

Look, I'm a Christian, and God knows I agree with you. But do you really think you can out-logic atheists?

It is physically impossible to convince someone that God is real. Share the truth, but decisions are made on faith, not on knowledge. Knowledge is important, but knowledge is just one ingredient in the concrete out of which our faith is built."

Answer 10

Dinosaur and Human Fossils Together
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dino-fossils.htm