Would you believe that Toyota is nowhere as good as thought?

Question

I have done quite a bit of research, and I would disagree with most people and say GM is the best car company. Just look at this http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/10/toyota_quality.html Toyota has had the most recalls in 06, and looks to keep it that way in 07. GM swept the NACTOY (North American Car of the Year) with their Saturn Aura and Chevy Silverado, a feat done only once before by Honda in 2006. Need proof: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/07/gm-sweeps-north-american-car-and-truck-of-the-year-awards/ In MotorWeeks Drivers Choice award the Saturn also won best sedan. http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/07/chicago-auto-show-motorweek-drivers-choice-awards/ Funny thing? No Toyota models won. If Toyota was really the best wouldnt they have actually won a best model? Not just the most eco-friendly. If Toyota was really that good why is the Corolla placed 5/6 in Car and Drivers test of small sedans, and why is the Yaris dead last in SmartMoneys? You tell me why Toyota is so good.

P.S. If you found this info helpful or interesting please star this question so I can get the word out.

Still think GM cant compete? Read these I put the reviews lowest first so you can see which one is more problematic. Now tell me what car YOU think is better.
Chevy Impala: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/chevrolet/impala/100757493/ratings_consumersdetail.html?dcr_usein=n&modelid=100516801&tid=edmunds.n.ratings_consumersdetail.content..2.Chevrolet*&dcr_sid=all&sortby=lowestRate
Saturn Aura: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/saturn/aura/100715083/ratings_consumersdetail.html?dcr_usein=n&modelid=100505067&tid=edmunds.n.ratings_consumersdetail.content..2.Saturn*&dcr_sid=&sortby=lowestRate
Toyota CAmry: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/toyota/camry/100699452/ratings_consumersdetail.html?dcr_usein=n&modelid=100506010&tid=edmunds.n.ratings_consumersdetail.content..2.Toyota*&dcr_sid=&sortby=lowestRate
Its not even close, the Saturn had way better reviews.

Still not convinced? Check this out http://www.caranddriver.com/tenfivebest/
The ranking in Car and Drivers ten/five best is almost exactly the same as MotorWeeks. Car and Driver bases their results off of professionals, unlike Consumer Reports, which I find as biased because they send out surveys to find their data. The surveys cannot avoid the perception that GM=bad, Toyota=good. In a professional test, the cars are rated by experts who know how to pick a good car, and they are still with the idea Toyota is the best. Toyota only got 1 model, Gm got 2, but Honda dominated with 4. The Tahoe/Yukon was really deserving of the Pilots spot, but I am pretty sure neither were tested, as there is no huge SUV in the photo of all the vehicles that were tested.

Heres Automobile Magazines "All-Stars" list for 2007. http://www.automobilemag.com/features/awards/2007_all_stars/0701_all_stars/index.html Lets see, 0 Toyotas, 0 Fords, 1 Honda, and 1 GM. Toyota can only hide so much of their downfall before people realize its time to come home. If Toyota had never entered the US market, the economy would be much better. The Us economy follows Detroits big three, whenever the domestic auto industry is doing well, the economy is doing well. It is time to let people know the truth about Toyota, for the better of us all.

Lets look at the Silverado VS Tundra. The Silverado has a bad reputation, which I am willing to admit because until 2007 they have only been cheap, company trucks. Even with that the 07 Silverado has managed to win the most famed award, Motor Trend truck of the year, as well as the NACTOY which is based off 49 editors opinions. The Silverado has won all but one "best truck" award that I can think of, that went to the Honda Ridgeline. The Tundra has cut many corners, making Toyota more money on an overpriced lemon. One of the worst ones is they used an open "C" channel truck frame while everyone else has gone the stronger route with a fully boxed frame. Toyota also said in a press interview, that they purposely kept the body panel gaps large, to get it a more masculine look (really, it was done to compensate for the flexing that the "C" frame will cause). Toyota is supposed to have "impeccable" quality, but that has obviously not carried over to the Tundra, or ANY new Toyota.

Answer 1

http://www.thecarconnection.com/pf/Auto_News/Commentary/At_Witz_End_Whats_an_American_Car.S192.A11981.html

Answer 2

Lol, you call any of that "research?" I point to the man who brought consumer reports into the picture: that is a truly objective resource, all your sources can be bought and paid for.

As an owner of an American car, I will attest that it is junk. 1997 Chevrolet Blazer. I run it half as hard as my cousin runs his 2006 Camry. And Im having trouble left and right.

Also, you very selectively use Car and Driver for your source on the Corolla. As someone who reads Car and Driver A LOT, I know the reason for Corolla's poor rating in that issue: they were not testing the car in everyday use, the tests were for sport and track! Not Corollas strong suite. Its more of a people mover, not a compact street machine. Also, same issue, who came in behind Toyota?

And as to SmartMoneys and Yaris, who, pray tell, are the other competitors? Hmm? Maybe you'd like to part with that and tell us the whole story.

Anyone, me, you, the rednecks who cannot stand that their American Made cars have foreign parts and the Tundra has 21 parts suppliers right there in San Antonio, we can all use suggestive language and selective sources to make one or another brand better. The truth of the matter is that no one Automaker is a controlling force in all categories: that is, if you go class to class, a different automaker is astride at the top almost each time. Only a few makes actually sit up top.

And to your rather poor comparison of Silverado to Tundra: While many half tons have gone to boxed frames this is not the only criteria for a strong frame, in fact many 3/4 and 1 ton pickups use only the C channel. Also, in terms of brakes, engine power and quality, and usefulness, the Tundra beats the Silverado hands down. Its 4WD system is inferior as it is part time only (something Toyota thought it had to do to attract the core of truck buyers), but having used it and a new Silverado, for work I do so prefer the Tundra. Buttons are nice and big, love the big door handles, cannot beat that engine for strength. When I worked with my boss's new Silverado, I was pulling gloves off and on, its strongest engine still did not outpower Toyotas (which also got better gas mileage than Silverado by the way, even in testing the DOD does not make up for the Tundras effecientcy).

The Silverado came with road tires and a more decadent interior though, so if I was a suburban dad, I'd probably be buying that. If I was a blue collar sort, I would be getting a Tundra.

Answer 3

Any car that my family has ever owned has been a GM. All the way from an '82 Buick Skylark to an '03 Impala. They've been very reliable and I'm not complaining. The thing is that GM needs to make more gas efficient cars. If you compare the gas mileage of an average Japanese car to an average American car, the chances are, the Japanese car has better gas mileage. When it comes to performance, safety and any of the other specs, I'll take the American car over any foreign car. Now, the problem is that the American car industry isn't focusing enough on fuel efficiency. We've come to a time when gas prices are at all time highs and the global warming paranoia (I'm not saying that it's a bad thing) is at it's peak as well. So, naturally people look to avoid making these problems worse. So, they buy economic cars. If you look at Hyundai, Honda, Kia, etc. . .their cars look like crap, have horrible suspension, and it feels like you're in a wheelbarrow when you're driving it. BUT, they have good gas mileage. The Japanese car industry sees what the public wants and the average person would rather buy a coupe w/ a 4 cylinder, 1.5 liter engine than the V6s and V8s that GM and Ford are trying to push. I know that American car companies are trying to become more fuel efficient but they just aren't doing it enough. Japanese cars have more publicity and that's what matters.

So to summarize: Toyota is considered good because it's fuel efficient and it's former glory is carrying it. America cars on the other hand have a bad rep for being gas hogs even though they're better in most other categories.

EDIT: I think that they false assumptions that some people make about homemade products play a big role. For example, no matter where you go, the big cliche is "foreign is better". It's not just America, it's also Europe. That's just the way it goes. Sometimes products don't get good reps because of their quality, rather where they came from. Now, I'm not saying that Toyota is necessarily a crappy car company, I am saying that people sometimes give it too much credit simply because it comes from Japan.

Answer 4

As the original owner of a 1996 Tacoma 4x4, 4 cyl, 5spd, with 295,000 miles - I don't really need to have a "Drivers Choice" award, or "2007 Truck of the Year" award to tell me how "good" a particular vehicle is. Those awards don't address things like reliability, resale value, etc. The proof is in ownership over the long haul and I believe that's probably what makes Toyota owners keep coming back to buy more. Also, look at Consumer Reports from owners of all vehicles. You'll find Toyota and Honda rank higher than most any other vehicle line. This is reported by consumers, not drivers from magazines that spend one short period of time in a brand new vehicle they don't own. As a long time owner, I'll have to continue to say Toyota's ARE as good as I thought, and continue to be. I also recently purchased a new 2007 Corolla; a model that will celebrate it's 40th anniversary next year. I have every reason to believe I'll get the same great service as I have my Tacoma, which I still have. GM, Ford and Chrysler are laying off thousands of workers. Toyota is building more plants and hiring more workers, and will most likely edge GM out later this year as the worlds largest auto maker. You don't get that distinction by not selling vehicles.

Answer 5

We have a 2001 Toyota Echo. Paid $14k. We're at 108,000 miles and not even a bump from the engine. Replaced the stock battery and tires last year. Just change your oil, filters, and keep your fluids in check.
Probly about time to swap out the timing belt. Minor $.

You also must consider the term "value." Why are resale values of the used "Big 3" so low? I think because at 100,000 miles (read 4-5 years) MOST toyota's have the drive train and engine wear/tear that a 2-3 year old or 50k mile Ford/Chevy/Gm/Chrysler.

Also when buying used, you've got less risk of a lemon going with a used 2-3 year old toyota, honda, nissan. I think thats 1 reason I think GM upped their drivetrain warranty. Putting action to their words. Toyota's sales are goin' crazy and they still have the 3 year/36k on most of their stuff! I've never had to use the warranty on our 01 echo or 03 tundra.

If GM/Ford/Daimler show some good consistency in quality over the next few years, then the sale$ will return.

I've also owned:
1981 Ford F100 (Tranny out at 125k)
1986 Chrysler Lebaron (Tranny, turbo poopy 115k)
1991 Ford Explorer (Knocking, c deposits on cyl 175k)
1992 Ford Taurus (Engine locked up after 3 months)
1989 GMC Sierra (350 V8) (Tranny poopy at 125k+)
2003 Toyota Tundra Sport (Too small for family)
(Traded up for the bigger Titan, but loved the tundra)

Now: 2001 Toyota Echo 40+ mpg (The work mobile)
2004 Nissan Titan Crew 14 mpg (The family car)

Answer 6

Toyota is known for the quality and dependability. Although in recent years it has slipped a little. Even Toyota acknowledges that and they are working in bring it back up. All the references you are pointing out are car magazines and tests. They test the car for a few days. They test value, performance, handling, and comfort. They do not test long-term reliability in those tests. If you look at the score sheet, most of them score on performance, comfort, handling, value, and sometimes a fun-to-drive rating. Toyota is known for their bland handling and lazy performance. But they are dependable and comfortable. Try sitting in a harsher Accord on a long drive. You will feel every single road bump. That is why Hondas handle better, their suspension is firmer. There is no such thing as a perfect car, Any car will have problems depending on how you drive it and how well you take care of it. My dad had a 1980 Corolla and he didn't even change the transmission oil because the bolt broke off. He drove up to 320,000 miles before he gave it off to his brother. Then his brother drove it a while and gave it off to a friend. My dad also had a 1986 Camry and that was also my first car. I abused that car (floored it a lot) and I couldn't break it. Now I own a 2005 Camry SEV6 and *knock on wood* it has never been back to the dealer. It has just over 36,000 miles now. I know the drive-by-wire throttle is a little weird sometimes, but I even feel that my '95 Accord has a longer delay with downshifts.

I also forgot to mention resale value. Look up any 1 or 2 year old car in the Kelly Blue Book. Actually check out the 2005 Acura TSX. My friend bought one for $26k and today it is still worth $23k in the excellent category with 30,000 miles. I also checked my car. I bought it for $24k out the door and it's still worth $17.5k. Check out a Taurus SEL(12.7k) or an Impala LS V6(14.5k) in the same price range(23k) when new in 2005 under private party.

If I were to lose my job tomorrow, I can still sell my car and not lose that much money. My TSX owning friend is so lucky that his car only dropped a little after a few years. Who would want to own a car who drops almost half in value after a few years????

EDIT: Nascar24, I also noticed you made many references about the Camry's transmission. The transmissions are rarely failing. What people are complaining about is a hesitation when stepping on the accelerator. It is pretty common to the drive-by-wire system. BMW, Acura, and even Honda has reports of downshift lags. It doesn't mean the car will not go at all, but it will leap forward all of a sudden because you stepped a little too much. I actually have no problem with this because I have the 3.3L in my Camry and there's plenty of torque accelerating in top gear.

Answer 7

GM is the best. GM is going to come out with 2 NEW Cars, and redesign the Malibu. They had no recalls in 06 and 1 in 07. GM had a Chevrolet Volt at the auto show. GM now has the 5 years 100,000 mile warranty. The cars that come from GM are the most reliable and don't cost a fortune to fix. Toyota is obviously trying to make a come back by even getting into NASCAR the ALL American sport until now. Who likes the way they look? And Ford having to take away from dealerships and close plants and fire workers to keep up with GM whos the best, GM.

Answer 8

I drive a 2001 GMC with 194000 miles on it. It's been really good to me. Yeah I had to change the usuals (brake shoes, plugs, the fuel pump) but I swear by it. And guess what, I just bought a new Yaris. Love the mileage and most every thing I've researched on it was good. I've owned GM almost exclusively for the last forty years, but I know a lot of
toyota drivers who are pretty happy with their Toyota's. They're both well made.

Answer 9

When you wrote that Toyota had the most recalls in 2006, you should know this: all vehicle manufacturers have problems with their vehicles. All manufacturers have/had to recall their vehicles. The fact that Toyota had the most recalls means that they stepped up to the plate and admitted their vehicle had a problem. They are also the most obsessed with having perfect cars if they recall them. Take Ford for example, they didn't have many recalls in 2006 but I know four people who have had problems with their 2006 Fords. My brother has a 2006 Toyota and hasn't had any problems. Recall numbers aren't a bad thing like they are stereotyped to be.

The awards GM has won were mostly based off of opinions of others or one person's experience, not the facts.

Answer 10

The engine in my Silverado started knocking at 25k miles, the transmission selected gears at random, the truck sat un-level, the steering was not smooth, the truck shook at 65 mph (not tires, alignment, shocks), the ABS would turn on when stopping on dry payment. But the new Silverados are better right? The story is always we're better now. The big 3 are handing the market over.

Answer 11

Toyota did have lots of recalls in 2006, but most of them are pretty minor with a very few exceptions. In terms of car magazines, they are very inconsistent so I wouldn't go with that. Just check out the previous year magazines and you will know what I mean. I do know that recently 2007 Consumer Reports just named Toyota as the most reliable car, where the Americans and Europeans spotted toward the middle and end of the list. I also heard different things from different shop owners. You be the judge.