Does anyone else see a problem with this? If not, can you explain?

Question

I am at a loss on part of the bible. It has to do with Adam and Eve and the apple of knowledge of good and evil.

Basically my problem is this:

God creates Adam and Eve. They have no knowledge of good and evil, right or wrong. He tells them they can eat anything except the fruit from this one tree. If they eat it they will die. They have no experience of death, and no knowledge of whether it is good or bad.

They do not follow God's word and eat the apple. God punishes them for this. Why?

They do not know right or wrong before eating the apple. So they do not know that not doing what God said is wrong. They have no concept of mortality, so why would the threat of death prevent them from doing anything?

It seems to me that someone with true wisdom would realise the problem here. How do you expect them to adhere to any sort of morality when you did not include morality in them upon creation. In fact you told them they could not have it.

I assume nothing more than what the bible has to say on this. It says that the tree is of the knowledge of good and evil. It says they do not have this knowledge before they eat from the apple.

Morality is based on following a path of good and not evil. With no knowledge of good or evil there is no morality.

Good and Evil, and Right and Wrong are synonymous.

No assumption is made here other than perhaps that they did not have a concept of mortality. And even if they did they would have no concept of whether it was good or bad. So they would have no reason to fear it.

I'm sorry to disagree, but it says in your bible that man did not know good and evil before this point. God admits it in Genesis.

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

See?

And as for a conscience:

the sense or consciousness of the moral goodness or blameworthiness of one's own conduct, intentions, or character together with a feeling of obligation to do right or be good b: a faculty, power, or principle enjoining good acts c: the part of the superego in psychoanalysis that transmits commands and admonitions to the ego

And morals:

1 a: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ethical b: expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior c: conforming to a standard of right behavior d: sanctioned by or operative on one's

Answer 1

Nice, applying logic to a fairy tale. Let's see them wiggle out of this one...

Answer 2

There are many other problems with this story. For a start the story was stolen from the Babylonian,s who use the symbol of the tree of life to represent god on earth. It first appeared in the Gilgamesh epic.

The Jews tried to convert the neighbours by adopting their symbols into their own faith. the original tree of knowledge/life is a date palm wrapped in a vine. And in the post Diaspora period before the second temple, the Pentateuch was edited to give it a very strict law abiding tone. So God is introduced to the story, and mans original sin.

So the Adam would have been tempted with a Date, not an apple, but the story was adapted by the early Western Church to try and control the Celtic church, which had women priests - So the symbol was changed to that of an apple, the source of the Celts alcoholic drink Cider - and Eve was made the guilty party. They also made all the Mary's the same in the new testament, so Mary was now a whore as well....

The god of the old testament is more like a spoilt child who punishes and smites down his enemies, its the simple paranoid ramblings of a little sheep herding tribe from there foot hill between three major empires.

To still be wasting our time applying logic, to it is ridiculous - but I must commend your concise argument. Of course your argument is wasted on the Chrisians, as they can not comprehend an argument that is not written inide thier little book. So the concept that no knowledge of sin, will just go over thier head. They are unable to step outside thier view-point, and see it from anothers, thus thye will never be able to view my Atheism in an objective way to have a discursive argument with me.

Answer 3

Ahh...yes...I like this one...Let me have a stab at this.

What we are looking at is a Morality Play written to explain some of the more sublime aspects of creationism. Is it fair that God punished two people (and the rest of humanity there after) for doing something wrong, despite the fact that they are incapable of understanding right from wrong?

That isn't the right question to ask. That isn't the message of the passage. The story of the able and the Garden of Eden is to show that God gave mankind the greatsest gift of all: a soul with the freedom to choose. God did not create Adam and Eve as robots to follow his Will, but gave them free will. Nor did he take Freewill away after they used it against their wishes. This is simply a story of Freewill.

But Genesis is even more ethan that. It is am attempt by mankind to express the Will and Wisdom of Divinity. Accepting for arguments sake than Genisis was written by Moses, whgo tranmscribed it from the Tongue of God, it would be like You dictating where babies come from, what they are supposed to do (and not do), and where they will end up in the future to a two year old, and then asking that two year old to write it down so all other two year olds will know.

Spirituality has npo place for logic. It is the foundation of thought, that governs where logic has no hold.

Answer 4

You are assuming that they were too stupid to understand what God meant when he said "don't do this".

The fact that they didn't have a knowledge of evil means that they didn't have the imagination to invent ways of doing evil that they were not told about. It doesn't mean that they couldn't understand a direct command.

A small child does not know what stealing is, or what murder is, because he cannot imagine it yet with his limited experience, but he certainly understands the word "no". Try it on a small child sometime.

The Bible does not say that Adam and Eve didn't have a concept of morality. You seem to be assuming too much.

===edit==

Pardon my confusion, but it doesn't sound like you are seriously looking for an honest answer here. You are bending over backwards to find imaginary difficulties with a passage that is easy to understand by anyone who has been around small, inexperienced children.

I don't see why it is causing you so many intellectual problems.

Answer 5

I'm not Christian, but I can answer this...Take a philosophy class and you'll learn that Morality has nothing to do with religion. Ask any Atheist if it's okay to kill an innocent man? They do not believe in the ten commandments and therefore do not have to abide by them, but even without the belief in God, they know that stealing and lying and murder are not good. God did not create morality. It is an innate sense that people have when they enter into a social contract of living together. If people couldn't figure out on there own that these things were bad, then we couldn't survive as a society. It has nothing to do with God.

Salam

Answer 6

God never expected them to adhere. At a basic level, we are all capable of understanding when wee are told something is wrong that it is wrong. It is no different than when we tell our children to stay away from the stove or they will get burned. They go and touch the stove anyway.

What many perceive as a punishment was not a punishment in the normal sense. Yes, Adam and Eve where forced out of the Garden and were forced to begin supporting themselves. What's so bad about that? It was a part of God's plan that we might come to earth and have an opportunity to learn and to grow. No, I see it as a blessing more than a punishment. If they had not eaten of the fruit, then none of us would yet be born.

Answer 7

The problem is your belief that Right and Wrong are in fact synonymous with Good and Evil. This is an incorrect assumption. I can make right and wrong choices without them being neither good nor evil. If you look up wither Good or Evil in the dictionary you will not see the words right or wrong appear in their definitions nor will you see either good or evil appear in the meanings of right and wrong. Therefore your inference that they are synonymous are of your own doing. You have assigned the same meanings to these words to make your point, but it is incorrect. So no I do not see the problem with this as far as what the bible states. Neither Adam nor Eve had to know what right or wrong was to follow what was told of them. Alls they had to do was obey God.

Answer 8

They were punished because God had given them the entire world, all in the garden was theirs, and He spoke audibly and showed Himself physically to them. They had the best beyond the best! All He required of them is to not eat from the tree of knowledge. But Eve listened to God's evil foe and Adam listened to and followed Eve's promptings to eat the fruit. They disobeyed and followed another word or command that was not of God. That is why they were punished. After they were cursed with sin and gave birth their children inherited the "disease" of sin...so on and so on until now. The same sin they committed and was cursed for is the same sin that curses man today. We disobey God and follow another belief or doctrine. God created us and gave us this world and this is how we treat Him and it. I'm just glad God didn't decide to destroy Adam and Eve and start all over again. None of us may have never existed.

Answer 9

You do assume everything. God "instructed" Adam not to eat from the tree. Knowledge of good and evil have nothing to do with it. Adam and Eve 'knowingly" disobeyed God. They were not adhering to anything, moral or not-they were willfully sinning.

If God had not already told them not to eat from the tree then it may be different.

Answer 10

God is absolutely holy. Adam and Eve were the first man and woman created holy, so they could commune with God. The sin wasn't in eating fruit. The sin was disobedience. They weren't as primitive as you might think. The Scripture says that Eve was deceived, but she gave some of the fruit to Adam and He ate it. So there was no excuse. They both chose to disobey God, and we're still paying the price for it.

Answer 11

God gave them Free Will. Choice if you will. Obedience comes with Love. You wouldn't go against the wishes of your spouse, would you? If they told you not to do something, would you require a reason why, or just follow their wishes because you love them. This is how it was between God and man. Man chose to disobey and God Had to expel them. It broke God's Heart, and ever since then, He was making a way back for us!! In the New Testament, it is in Acts 2:38. This is the way out of sin. Experience it today!!