I am re-asking this question. How can a person know if "Harm none is actually harming none?"?

Question

It has to be a judgment call....unless you can know for sure what the reactions of the other people involved will be?

I don't believe that every Wiccan has the ability to "read the future".

What is your opinion?

If this is offensive, I apologize.
It's an honest attempt to understand the "chain reaction" of INTENT!

One person's intent may eventually cause harm to another....unless you use the logic of "chaos".

Answer 1

I really do wish more Witches understood the Rede better, as it's alarming to me to watch *some* that I know go through bizarre and dishonest gyrations in order to justify their action as doing "no harm".

"An it harm none, do as you will"

(An = provided)

Like many things, this requires some explanation.

Notice that this is an "If, then" statement. If you've taken logic classes, you'll be familiar with that.

Here's another example of an "If, then":

If it rains today, then I'll make soup for dinner.

Given just that, what can we say about dinner it if doesn't rain today?

Nothing, really. I may make soup; I may make something else; I may not make dinner at all.

So the Rede says, basically, "If what you're thinking about doing will cause no harm that you can see, go ahead, don't spend any time pondering the ethics of it"

What does the Rede say about harmful actions? Nada. Zip. Not a word.

It does not address purposely harmful actions, nor does it address accidentally harmful actions.

We are left to decide for ourselves if we will intentionally do something harmful. And we know that we will have to deal with the consequences if we so choose.

Unintentional harm is different - it's kind of a grey area. I tend to think that this is an area in which thoughtlessness will produce thoughtlessness. Also, part of the Rede is knowing what belongs to you and what belongs to others. The reactions of people to you are theirs, not yours.

This is something that most newbies don't know about the Rede - that's because teachers generally don't tell them until they have reached a level of ethical caution that lets the teacher know that the student can understand fully the responsibility involved in doing purposely harmful things. Generally when a student is at this level, there is no real desire to do purposely harmful things, so it's not the threat of return that stops us, it's a desire not to purposely cause harm...and to do the least harm when there is no option but to do some level of harm.


The Rede doesn't actually say "Do no harm under any circumstances whatsoever"- we're not so naive that we think that we can avoid doing any harm ever.

What the Rede requires is ruthless courage in examining ourselves - our actions, our motivations, etc., the acknowledgment of US being the source of our actions (responsibility), and the willingness to accept the consequences of our actions like adults.

It requires that as we grow in the Craft we learn from past actions and consequences, and strive always to become MORE honest with ourselves about ourselves, and more thoughtful in evaluating the potential harm of our actions.

It is not easy to follow the Rede. But it is worthwhile.

Answer 2

I agree with you, it has to be a judgement call.

A great religious thinker and writer once said that you can "...commit a sin against a blade of grass" (I assume by walking on it and killing it)

For example, I am sitting here writing using my computer to communite to you. One would think that I am "Harming none", however, this computer was manufactured on machinery that has moving parts. Moving parts move because of oil and grease. Oils and grease come from the "Rendered grease" industry and the pertroleum industry. Guess where "rendered grease" comes from..... animal carcasses left over from the "meat" industries.

My continued use of items manufactured by modern machinery perpetuates the demand for grease and supports the continued slaughter of animals. How is that "Harming none."?

Should I become a total ludite and give up modern conviences because of this? My personal choice is no but someone else may read this, be shocked, and stop supporting the rendered grease industries.

My favorite response to the whole phase, not just the "harming none part" was, "Well, you're hurting me by following that belief system." Oh reaaalllyyy.

Incidentally,the same person had just mocked my method of communication to the Universe and then offered to, according to her belief system, repeat a standard set of words a set number of times in order that I be back on the good side of the Universe.
I respected her views and didn't point out the obvious irony of what had just happened. :)

As for others reactions, the only one you have to answer to is yourself and the universe. If it dosen't feel right in your heart of hearts, don't do it. If it feels right and you know it will upset people, i.e. your choice to be Wiccan maybe, or how you are Wiccan, (I'm a solitary with no patience for rituals) you are allowed to be private in your actions and thoughts.

Answer 3

Like gods free will.

We leave you in a state that is the same or better than we found you.

What you do after that is your call, and we didn't do it.

We don't think that if you teach a person how to use a gun, how to respect it and know that it can greatly harm someone. That when you arm them and they go out and kill peopel with it that it's our fault.

We did what we could to teach respect and understanding. It was your actions later that caused the effect.

I know that was way off topic, but you really didn't give a very good example for me to compair to, now did you?

EDIT*
"Never do anything to anyone that would be against their will"

That's something more people should practice. And a very good point to understading Wicca.

Answer 4

You don't. Just gotta give it your best shot. Wicca is a beautiful religion. But it has its own baggage too. It is really derived from a host of ancient Earthmother religions although male "god" figures are prominent in a lot of modern sects. Incidently seeing the future isn't all that hard sometimes. All you have to do is look at the past.

Answer 5

Harming one on purpose is wrong. You can accidentally harm someone just by stepping on their foot. I don't believe no wiccan can read the future.

Answer 6

Do you really have so little conscience that you can't tell when someone would be hurt by something you do?

Its really not that hard to tell.

Never do anything to anyone that would be against their will. Never try to actually bring them physical or emotional pain.

Its not that difficult. Sometimes those things will happen anyway but that wasn't the INTENTION behind it.

Answer 7

everyone living a modern consumer lifestyle is participating in the harming of someone. Slavery never really ended, we just outsourced it to other countries.

unless you make everything you have and grow your own food, that is.