Dog training help?

Question

I have a 2 year old blue merle collie who is currently in the beginners class in training. He's doing really well (except he hates all of the other dogs there and constantly tries to chew their heads off).
One of my "issues" is something that hasn't been covered in class yet - when I take him out for his run he loves to chase balls or frisbies. He gets them and brings them back beautifully, but won't let me take it off him - he would rather play tug of war with it. Trouble is this usually involves grabbing my fingers in the process. I have asked one of the trainers in class and he recommended grabbing his collar and blowing in his ear (the dog, not the trainer) to get his attention off the toy. I'm not convinved this will work because I've tried all sorts of tricks and he wises up to them very quickly (taking biscuits, other toys etc etc). Does anyone have any fool proof methods for getting the little sod to give up the toy?

Just to clarify - I've tried taking identical toys, but after two days of this he caught on and refused to show interest in the second toy. He's a clever lad...

Answer 1

Collies are incredibly intelligent dogs, and loads of fun to own, but they know what they like, and don't like to give these things up.

have you tried taking two of the toy you are playing with that day with you? then when he comes back with one, you can ask him to sit, show him the second toy and wait for him to drop the first toy. then you can throw the second toy which he will chase and you can pick up the first.

Make sure you take two of the same toy on the walk, incase he prefers one type and then decides the other type isn't worth giving up the first for.

i know this might seem silly, to take two toys, but with collies it's sometimes better to find away around things rather than stopping them.

really hope this works for you, i have found it useful with my border collie who had a very similar problem.

P.S. i really don't think the blowing in the ear or the thing with the lip are very good suggestions, they are both punishment and best to always train with reward, especially with collies.


ALREADY TRIED THE TWO TOYS..... have just read your post, sorry about that.

I will have a think to think of another idea, and try to find a solution before the question closes.

Answer 2

The reason that he won't give up his toys is not because he isn't being rewarded or because he doesn't want to stop playing. Thats why the other methods involving food etc haven't worked.
The real reason is that he is being possessive. He is exercising control over you. This is the same reason that he is a bit of trouble with the other dogs.

As you go through the training classes - your relationship and control over him will improve so I won't go into too much depth over how to establish yourself as pack leader. Instead here are a few tips for working with him on a new command that will help you keep control of the situation.

It sounds as if you have training him very well so far and bit of work will soon get you there.

First of all you need to teach him 'drop' or 'release' at home. Do this by saying the command and giving him a little tap on the nose when hes carrying something around indoors - or having a chew on something. Hold the object while you do this so he knows you are waiting for it. You may have to encourage him to let go with a treat or by waiting a few seconds and then firmly repeating his name and the word. What ever happens, do not enter into a tug of war! If he won't give it up just walk away and ignore him for a while. Try again later - eventually his curiousity will mean he lessens his grip! When he releases, praise him instantly and then tell him to sit and give him the item as a reward.

Repeat the method over and over during the day as you would with the other commands you have taught him.

When he is more reliable in obeying the command - you will now have the confidence that he understands and it will help you to maintain control on your walk.

Another tip is to remember that the toys all belong to you. Make sure that the way you handle them demonstrates this to your dog.
If he really knows this he will be happy to give them back to you. You can reinforce this understanding by keeping control of the toys - only handing them out on your terms (ie - not when he is leaping up and down like a loony as thats his way of training you to do what he wants!) - putting them away when you finish a game with him - teaching him the 'drop' command - and varying the toys that you use. This will all keeping him guessing and keep his attention on you his leader and provider of all fun stuff!!

Answer 3

This is such an annoying problem!
He needs to learn how to inhibit his bite, you could try yelping sharply next time he catches your hand, then stand up, turn your back and walk off.
If the game stops when he nips, he'll stop nipping. (in theory!)

My advice would be to change the game. Keep your hands out of the way and have him drop the ball onto a given spot, then back off, then you pick it up and chuck it. If he darts at the ball he doesn't get it thrown until he's backed off.
Its probably best to practice at home when he's not so wound up. Make all your movements slow and deliberate. Every time he starts to get agitated or darts at the ball, stand up and act like you've lost interest in the game.
Its the competition over the ball he seems to be interested in so take away the tug of war element.

You can teach him to do that when you feed him, pick a command, put him in the right spot, put the food bowl down but he can't rush forward and eat until you say ok. You can put him on the lead while you go through this routine.

I think you could do with seeing a different trainer to deal with this, a behavioural trainer rather than an obediance trainer. They can demonstrate the technique and observe while you try it yourself.

Answer 4

First thing you must do is to STOP playing any tug-of-war games. Tug-of-war only increases the dominance in the dog. Next,teach your dog to sit on command,which can be done at home. Throw something for him.Call him to you,do not touch the toy!! Put your hand out in front of you and give the sit command, in a firm voice, placing your hand on his rear back. If he refuses, give a firm no and turn your back on him, taking a few step away.Repeat this process. Once your dog has mastered the sitting on command, then you go further. Next time he brings you a toy,stand in front of him. Do not touch the toy. Give a firm command of "leave", "drop", "thank you" whichever word you like.Simple basic training such as this can be done at home.You must be consistent,precise,and firm with Borders or they will get the upper hand. Once a command is given,ALWAYS see it through! Time and patience will reward you with a wonderful dog.

Answer 5

Ok here is what you do. As him for the ball. If he wants to play tug of war. Then say that fine. Then you walk away and ignore him. Remember you are the boss. We play on your terms not his. It may take week though but he will learn, that when he does not want to give the ball or Frisbee back. Then play time is over and he does not get your attention unless he does what is asked.

My dog is in a beginners class also. He is so good at home. But when he is around other dogs. Thats it he wants to play and not pay attention. Plus the instructor is favored to labs and I have Mini Schnauzer'

Answer 6

Take some small pieces of cheese with you and when he brings the Frisbee back give him plenty of praise and a nice piece of cheese, I have a Border Collie who used to do the same thing, I could actually lift him off the ground his teeth were clamped so tight on to the Frisbee, we got through about 5 in as many weeks! my hubby thought I had bought shares in a Frisbee firm! Ha Ha! after a while of using the cheese I didn't always need it, and now he doesn't expect it, I just give him lots of praise when he drops it at my feet for me to throw again.

Answer 7

It sounds to me like you and your dog would be better off training at a different facility or with a different trainer, because from your description it sounds like your trainers aren't very knowledgeable and also do not address other problems (such as your dog's dog aggression) during the class.

I think the suggestion of grabbing his collar and blowing in his ear is ridiculous. For one, your dog's going to associate bringing a toy back with getting grabbed by the collar like he's done something wrong; and in addition to that, blowing in your dog's ear might be a good way to get bitten if your dog startles easily or is in play mode.

It's not unusual for a dog to bring back a toy and want to play tug with it rather than releasing it. A lot of dog trainers look for dogs who have this sort of toy drive, so that they can use playing tug as a reward in training. But it can be frustrating if you can't get your dog to give it up.

One way of teaching your dog to give it up is to have a second toy ready. For example, if your frisbees fold up so that they'll fit into your pockets, have one in each pocket. After he brings back the first one you've thrown, show him the second frisbee by holding it in the hand you usually throw with. Don't throw it yet. Just show it to him, wiggle it a bit to get his attention. Then give him the command to release the first one by reaching for it and saying "OUT". Chances are, he's excited to go chase the second one and will release the first one. As soon as he does, praise him, and throw the second one as a reward.

Once you can consistently get him to release the first toy by saying "OUT", start increasing the time before you throw the second one as a reward, and put more of an emphasis on the praise than the reward. You can also start trying to leave the second one in your pocket and not bring it out until after he's released the first one.

Basically the idea is to get your dog to understand that OUT does not mean the game is over and there'll be no more fun had. Out doesn't mean a bad thing. It just means he needs to give up a toy - but other fun will follow and he'll be rewarded for giving it up.

Answer 8

The method that worked best for me was just to have two of the same toy. However, I have one dog who will not drop the first toy to pick up the second. For her, it was a looooong process. If she wouldn't give me the toy, I sat down and stopped playing. As soon as the toy hit the ground (this could be minutes or it could be so long that I just went inside) I picked it up and the game started again. She's a slow learner and it was about two months before she caught on. She does leave things when I say 'leave it' and when the toy hit the ground, I used this command so she wouldn't pick it back up. If you try this, I recommend teaching leave it first and your instructor should be able to help you with that. You could also ask for help teaching the dog to 'drop it' or 'give' (two seperate commands in my house; one for dropping and the other for putting in my hands). Since you've tried so many things, let the trainer know what you've tried first. I do not recommend blowing in the dog's ear unless you know he won't nip your face. That startles some dogs and they reflexively nip, not because they are bad but because instinct told them that is what they should have done. Good luck with him.

Answer 9

When you do play "Tug of war" make sure YOU win the last go. You decide when the game is up. Pup learns to play by your rules and will soon distinguish between games.
When pup retrieves give praise and offer treat, if he doesn't give up the toy, withdraw treat and turn your back, repeat until successful.
Make sure your command is calm, firm and consistant
Good luck

Answer 10

ugh...the trainer recommended grabbing the collar and blowing in his ear?! doesn't sound like the smartest idea to me. same goes for pushing the dogs lips against his teeth. you don't want him giving the frisbee to you so you will stop hurting him! you need to consider how dogs think. why should he give you his toy? he likes it! he's not going to give it up just because you want him to, he needs to get something out of it. keep a bunch of treats in your pocket. when he comes to you with the frisbee, take it firmly in your hand and put a treat right on his nose. say "drop it" and the second he does, pop the treat in his mouth. then throw the frisbee again right away. he will learn that giving up the frisbee means something good with happen. once he drops it right away each time you say "drop it" you can stop giving him the treat every time. just do it once in a while to reinforce the behavior. if he tries to turn it into a tug game. say "uh uh" and drop it. don't tug back, otherwise you are turning it into a game just like he wants. just drop it for a second, grab it firmly again and offer the treat. worked with my dog, now he drops it on command all the time.