Good Surplus Bolt Rifle?

Question

I want to get a bolt action rifle that fires either the Russian 7.62x54r round or the 8mm Mauser round.

The candidates for bolt action rifle are....
M44 Soviet carbine, has a folding Bayonet. 120 dollars
M38 Soviet carbine, (m44 w/ no bayonet) 160 dollars
Mauser98k German carbine, made in Yugoslavia 160 dollars

Anyone own any? I want to know the good and bad of each one. I hear the m38 is gaining value but I like bayonets. The Mauser98k is probably better made but I don't know.

Anyone know of any other bolt action carbines that fire either of these rounds or another that is as cheap that I should consider instead? I am trying to keep the price at 175 dollars or less since this is just a rifle for fun.

Answer 1

The fact that you have narrowed the field of military surplus rifles down to 8mm and 7.62x54r shows me that you have done your homework and picked the most accessable calibers regarding cheap and reliable milsurp ammo.

I have plenty of rifles in each of these calibers and they are my weekend standards for taking to the range. They are both big, robust rounds that shoot well out to longer distances and definitely cause the .22 shooters at my range to move far to the other end of the firing line. Both of these European calibers are similar in ballistics to the American .30-06 and are quite suitable to hunt where you would the venerable .30-06.

The Russian rifles are both simple and robust, like the Russians themselves. Considering this rifle was designed in the late 1880s and saw production through 1960 and many are still in service in parts of the world today, it is perhaps the longest serving bolt action rifle ever made. The differences between the early Model 1891 through the 91/30 revision and into the 1938 and 1944 carbines and even the 91/59 reworked carbines are slight. Bolts for example between all these models were exactly the same and interchangeable.

Fit and Finish on some models and some different factories will vary and the wartime models with really rough finishing work are surprisingly desired by some collectors. On the early 91/30s, hexagonal shaped receivers are desired by collectors as well buy usually only cost you $10 more.

If you like to shoot 200 yard targets as in the Garand Match like I do, you want a 91/30. The M38 and M44 carbines are good, but are less rifle at long range than the mid length 91/30 barrel. Also, the carbines will have more felt recoil but offer a huge and impressive fireball blast out the muzzle which is great for night time displays of firepower but nothing else.

Be careful with M38, most I have seen are counterbored. Also, while you may think the attached bayonet is cool on the M44, it's a major PITA in my opinion for a shooter and adds considerable unnecessary weight.

The 8mm Mauser is my favorite hands down. I love the Mauser design and the fact that it was so influential for over a century and strongly influenced the Springfield 1903 and Jap Arisaka rifles is a testament to its superior design. Most sporting rifles sold in the world today are based on Mauser design. I have two dozen 8mm rifles so I buy ammo by the case monthly.

My favorite examples are one of my German K98k and a Czech VZ-24 which is nearly mint. The Czech was made under direct supervision of the Mausers during the period after WWI when Germany could not produce arms. It's quality of steel and production are unmatched and many say it has the smoothest action of any rifle ever built.

My favorite shooters are a Yugo M48 which I have modified with Mojo peep sights and believe it or not a stock Turk 1903 which can hit the 18 inch 350 yard gong at my range consistantly from a sandbag rest. It really frustrates the guys with weatherbys and $1400 Leopold scopes when I do this with an old beat up Turk and no scope and ping that gong a few times in a row.

I would suggest calling a number of gun shops in your area to see who has an account with Century Arms, southern Ohio gun (SOG) and Aim Surplus. Also try Classic Arms and Empire Arms, both are a little higher but they are small shops that personally hand pick the best of the distributors stock and offer excellent service. Most pawn shops are also FFL dealers and many will order whatever you find available and do the legal transfer to you. Look up all these on Yahoo and consult me for price info if you want.

As you can tell, I love talking about this stuff.....write me for more, my email is in my profile.

Answer 2

The three military rifles that stand above the rest in terms of accuracy are the Swedish Mauser (6.5x55), Swiss K31 (7.5x55) and the Finnish M39 (7.62x54). Of these, the Swiss K31 fits your price range. The other two can get get pretty pricey for ones in nice condition.

The upside of the Swiss K31, relative to the Mauser K98 or M44/M38 is that it is better made (the Swiss are known for craftmsmanship) and more accurate (although neither the K98 or M38/M44 are a slouch in accuracy). It has a really COOL straight pull bolt that is unlike anything else you will see, and the rifle overall is just a little neater than either the Mauser or Mosin Nagants.

On the down side, ammo for it is a bit more expensive for surplus ammo, but basically the same price for modern factory made ammo. While the surplus ammo can be dirt cheap, most of it is corrosive and it means that you will have to be very diligent in tearing your rifle down and cleaning it after shooting, which can be a time-consuming pain. While not as cost effective, modern ammo is more accurate and consistent, and is non-corrosive so you don't have to clean your rifle nearly as often. I'm a lazy ba$tard, so I shoot nothing but modern production ammo.

I would suggest you cruise over to this site prior to any purchase and do some research. It really is interesting stuff there. The links to info on numerous milsurp rifles can be found on the left hand frame of the home page.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/

Regardless of which rifle you choose, give this guy a try because he is a quality guy, his prices are reasonable, and he stocks all of the rifles you have mentioned.

http://www.classicarms.us/

Finally, take care with the Spanish .308 Mauser recommendation. Those rifles were not originally chambered in .308 (also known as 7.62x51) but were rechambered to that caliber. They are what is known as small ring Mausers and they are one of the few Mausers where receiver integrity comes into consideration; most Mauser receivers are built like tanks. The .308 CETME that the guy mentioned is a whole different animal. They are GREAT semi-auto battle rifles, but the prices start at $450 and go on up from there.

Also avoid the Stery M95 (you'll see it on the Classicarms page) as the ammo is hard to find and is not currently manufactured (unless someone can identify a mfg. that has initiated current production in the recent past). Also, it requires stripper clips and these can be a pain to find and keep up with (when you empty the clip, it falls free from the bottom of the rifle and can be lost).

Lastly, if I had to choose from the three rifles you originally mentioned, I would recommend the K98 for you. I have both a Mosin Nagant M38 & M44 and those little carbines kick like crazy. Somebody else mentioned the squirrely safety as well. Now I'm not dissing these rifles as I own and shoot both as well as a Mosin Nagant 91/30 sniper rifle and a Finnish M39 that is based on the Mosin Nagant 91/30. Mosin Nagants have a certain charm (see Enemy at the Gates and you'll understand) and I wouldn't part with mine.

Answer 3

The Mosin-Nagant M38/M44 rifles are accurate, but the safety is a poor design, and hard to use. I rarely shoot mine for this reason. But mine is accurate.

The Mauser would be a good choice. I would pay twice as much for a Mauser than a Mosin if they were in the same condition.

Another gun to check out is the .303 British Lee Enifeld Mark 4 that they used in WW2. The best ones were made at the Long Branch Arsenal in Canada. These have a lot of improvements over the Mark 1 models of WW1.

Answer 4

I had the dunhams special M44 with side folding bayonet good gun, the german and turkish mausers are known for their accuracy, the british .303 is also a nice gun the yugo m59/66 is my new cheap gun not a bolt action but you can throw a 30 rd sks mag on it and go plinking all day cheap. these are all surplus hand pick it, go through 3 or 4 and check all the barrels and actions for excessive wear buy a bore light so you can get a good look up the bore also check where the action meets the barrel and check the crown. they're all used and packed in grease but take the time an investment is an investment.

Answer 5

You may have a hard time finding one in select, or super select for $175, but I have a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser that kick asss.
Admittedly, it's in better condition than most I've seen, but it's got a smooth as silk bolt, (I'll put it up against a Browning or Rem. any day), and will also outshoot any rifle I own out to 200-250 yards. While surplus ammo is not as cheap, you can buy Wolf hunting rounds (for practice), for $6-8 a box. They actually grouped pretty well, and came in just a little lower than the Federal's I sight in with. Also, unlike some of the other surplus calibers, you can buy some pretty premium hunting loads for a 6.5 without breaking the bank. It also has minimal recoil, which helps if you shoot alot. Good luck.

Answer 6

"""The Mauser is slightly more powerful"""

The standard 8mm Mauser is NOT more powerful than the 7.62x54r Mosin Nagant round!

Anytime you hear that old wives' tale repeated, it's a sure sign that you need to kick in your bullshit filters.

The only thing you need to be concerned with as a first timer milsurp shooter is ammo cost. The Mauser will run you 12-13 cents a pop for surplus bought in bulk. The MN will cost you approx 10 cents a pop for the same.

As to getting a Mauser rebarreled....save your gold and buy two or three more Mausers or MN's or a few thousand more rounds of ammo for the same cost. Milsurp rifles aren't modern tack drivers. Trying to make one out of one is a sure sign of lunacy. You'll gain more economical accuracy by practicing with cheap ammo than you will by buying a $200 barrel.

In response to Doc below....

The Spanish FR-7 is indeed converted from a small ring Mauser and as such should be passed on....the FR-8, however, is based on the large ring action and is utterly and completely safe to operate. If the choice of rifles included the FR-8, it would rank right up there in popularity.

Answer 7

I'd get a Mauser or Mosin, with the Mosin-Nagant M-44 faster to work and a bit more accurate than the Mauser. Both ammos are still cheap and plentiful, just be sure to clean the guns after each use due to corrosive primers in use in most of them.
A nice Springfield 1903A3 would be nice but more pricey, or a 1917 Enfield or British Mark III-No. 4 are still available reasonably priced Or how about a Spanish Mauser in .308? Everybody is going to need a good .308 in the near future. I have a nice semi-auto CETME in .308 but it's more than $175.00.

Answer 8

I own a Mosin Nagant M44 with folding bayonet.

The Mauser is slightly more powerful, but as far as I know, the M44 is a very good rifle

Answer 9

I have an 8mm Yugo mauser. I like the rifle a lot. Of those you mentioned I think you'll find the Mauser has the nicest bolt action and best trigger by far. The 98K action is basically what all modern hunting rifles are based on.

Answer 10

I had a 98k Mauser in 7.92 several years ago and had no problems with it at all. Served the germans well through two wars. My personal preference is the Short Magazine Lee Enfield in .303. Either the mark 3 or 4.