Are there any proofs of god?

Question

That don't have obvious loop holes in them?

10 points to the first person who can name a proof of which I can't find an adequate rebuttal for.

(by proofs, I mean, because of "x" acting upon "y" in such a manor, god must exist (probably not the best of examples, but you get my drift))

And for this, we will define god as an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being.

Logic proofs.

I do find fun picking them apart and finding their flaws

Proof that he doesn't exist?

an illogical being cannot exist, can it?

Maurice: Only simple things were created by design. Complex things are created by chance.

To prove it, how many worlds like earth do you see? About a score at best out of billions and billions. Let's look at cars. Compared to the earth, they're simple. Also, they are mass produced. Each one's design is the same, because it was created for a purpose, but upon deeper examination, each one is unique in its own way, and yet, this uniqueness wasn't by design

Steven: if god is all things, then he is the root of all evil. He is the core of the seven deadly sins if he is everything. If he is so, then he cannot be an omnibenevolent god.

Dze: a more perfect ecosystem could be developed, a more stable enviornment perhaps?

Also, not even man evolved beyond the system. Man is part of the system, continuously evolving and adapting to better survive in the system.

We are not beyond our enviornment, we are part of it

Ripcord: here, read this

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bibles_unfulfilled_prophecies.htm

Carnac: that is true, but on the other hand, I also believe that if my belief's are right, that they can be supported. I refuse to believe in anything that doesn't have evidence supporting it

Jason Koh: That still wouldn't prove that God exists. It would simply allow me to believe that a force of somesorts exist. This force doesn't necesarilly have to be a diety.

Archangel: please provide evidence that these events actually occured...and to my knowledge, the NT was written 300 years after his death...

Fish: ah yes, the unmoved mover. I remember that proof. Quite simple to unravel. Objects at motion stay at motion. Thus, the particles must have either been set in motion, or always moving. Now, the particles must have been set in motion by something...such as a blackhole caused by the rapid decrease in pressure caused by a previous big bang. Following this, the big bang is not the beginning of time, because time is an independent variable. So, since time is an independent variable, it has no direct connection to the beginning of the universe. So, the big bang wasn't the beginning of time. The universe? Going back to the black hole, we see that the big bang is not the beginning, nor the end, but simply a step in a cycle. Now, considering that the cycle is endless, just as much as time is, it is easy to believe that the particles were always in motion.

So the unmoved mover is no longer necessary, as seen, and this proof becomes subjective to possibilities.

That was fun =)

Roy, I'm not even going to fight that one...it uses to many complex concepts that my brain can't handle this late at night...but one thing...

God is omnipresent, meaning he is everywhere, including on the plane of existence of which existence was first created. And since god is unchaning (I know I didn't mention that in the definition of god, which would be a major loop hole), he always existed on the plane of existence, even before existence was created...that doesn't make sense to me at all

Answer 1

God by neccessity must be outside of the created universe. Also it just makes sense that He would have meaning and purpose for creating the world right?
Okay..I'l try to show where the reality of God is evidenced in creation. Other than this He can be known by subjective experience but that cannot be demonstrated to you because I do not know how to make my subjective experience of God real to you.
However. Albert Einsteins General Theory of Relativity pointed us to the direction of a singularity in the creation of the universe, including space, time, Matter and energy. After others found the minor algebraic error in his equation and took away the cosmological constant it was proved that a steady state universe was impossible and the time period to Planck time does not allow for the mathematical probability for Darwins evolutionary cycle to be possible. After the initial density had expanded outward to enable energy to seperate itself from matter and atomic assemblage became possible to where galaxies and star systems came into being there was left a ripple-like effect in space not unlike when you toss a pebble upon the surface of an otherwise still pond. Astrophysicist call this the cosmological microwave background radiation and was known in theory to exist but was not actively explored until its accidental discovery by AT&T/Bell laboratory technicians in 1965. This was later verified by the COBE satelites measurement of entropy in the universe and was called by Stephen Hawking the greatest discovery of the century. Couple the two together (The primeval atom disparingly refered to as the "Big Bang" and the ripples in the fabric of space) and what you have is the fingerprint of God.
You can go a bit farther beyond the creation event for the universe and up to the current day and account for consciousness by no other means than by that which had to have occured within the framework allowed by the time of the age of the universe and you will find it to be far too sudden of an event to be explained by anything other than from a consciousness transcendent of the universe and patterned by neccessity from that same conscousness. What cannot be seen in the world is actual thought, but the evidence for it is, as you know, your own subjective reality of self consciousness and the acts which your own intelligence demonstrate. In this same manner I see the evidence for intelligent thought purpose and will in the preciseness of nonvariables in the universe in order for life to exist at all as indicative of a transcendent consciousness seperate from the acts of His will. This for me is the empirical evidence of God to me apart from the subjective reality of His revelation to my heart and mind through His word and sustaining providence in everyday life.
Is this something like what you were looking for?

Answer 2

"Is absence of proof of God proof of the absence of God?" No. I think you are leaning more into the area of agnosticism. (atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive). I am an Agnostic Atheist. I don't believe in the existence of deities, but I don't entirely rule them out, either. I personally, feel that the existence of deities is unlikely (though possible). I also feel that the majority of theistic religions are man-made, and impossible. You mentioned an issue of the burden of proof. It always lays on the person making the fantastic claim. If I were to say there were a flying spaghetti monster, you would ask for proof, and rightly so. There cannot be proof that gods do not exist. What you have to do is start from an unbiased point. The evidence does not necessarily support a divine creator. Theists generally tend to lean that way due to their upbringing and social environment. You should always start with the question and try to find the answer. You should never start with the answer and try to fit the question to it.

Answer 3

There are five proofs for God's existence. I will only talk about one, because the others are very deep philosophical thoughts that I won'
t take the time to explain.

1. The First Mover. God is necessary because of motion.

Let's look at the beginning of the universe. The Big Bang Theory is the most widely accepted view, so I'll use that one. This theory states that all the matter in the entire universe was contained in one speck at the beginning of time, and this speck was so small that it hardly existed. Pressure caused this speck to explode into the universe we know of today.
Now, What is pressure? The motion of molecules.
Now, what causes motion? Newtons laws (Laws of Nature that we know to be true) states that objects at rest stay in rest and objects in motion stay in motion until acted on by an outside force. Now, When we say the beginning of the universe, it means that it is the first natural thing to happen. That means that the molecules had to be set in motion by something that is unmoved, because there is nothing natural before it to move them. Nothing natural could have moved them because it was the first natural thing to happen. This unmoved Mover we call God.

All the other proofs of God's existence can be found in the Summa Theologica, A Catholic document written by St. Thomas Aquinas, a 12th century monk.

Keep in mind that I have not really explained it to its fullest capacity. I Advise you to actually read the document. This question is addressed in the second question of the first part of the document.

Say what you want, It is impossible to disprove God's Existence. Think about it.

Also, you can't even disprove this proof.

I don't think you adequately disproved this proof. I didn't say the big bang theory was the beginning of time. Also, we have to take into consideration the law of conservation of mass. If matter can't be made by natural means, then how did it get here? Once more, God.
The thing is, there had to be a beginning of time. Logically, time can't be just part of a cycle, if you think about it. There has to be a beginning of time. I challenge you to disprove that.

In your counter point, you stated that the molecules could have been set in motion by a previous big-bang. Once more, my proof is valid. No matter how far you go back, this proof will always make sense.

Also, you say that time is endless, that it always has been and always will be, but that tells me that you didn't read the document I said you should, because it is addressed in that too. There has to be an end to time, or else there would be no time at all, because everything has a purpose, and if it is beginningless and endless, then there is no point to it. Another proof that God exists.

If event A happens AFTER event B, then event A cannot logically effect event B. I don't see any rationalization or evidence that time is endless.
And also, you need matter (which cannot be created naturally) to get a black hole, so, I think your counter point is full of holes.

I really think your scrambling to disprove some of these answers. Of course, now that I've said that, your going to say I'm scrambling to defend my position, but, I made a point, and now its time for your counter point.

And How could you say that time has no connection with the beginning of the universe? Apparently, time is a natural thing, and since the universe is natural, there is a connection right there. There's no way it could be an independent variable. Also, most of the scientific community believes that time was created with the universe. You just arbitrarily assume that time is and independent factor, outside of the natural world. But if it is outside of the natural world, isn't that another proof of God?
JUST PROVE TIME IS ENDLESS.

So to recap:
1.You must prove (Logically this time) that time is both endless and an independent variable.
2. Since the collapse of matter is needed to form a black hole, and matter cannot be created naturally, God still had to create matter to get matter to move, and that is covered in my original argument.

And I think your a dope, too. Man alive your condescending. It's amazing how little you care for logic and rational proof, you only want people to see things your way, just like everyone else, but don't pretend you know what your talking about.

You know what, I think I'm done here. You don't seem to be able to argue with these facts. Boy you make me angry. Not even man enough to logically provide evidence for your beliefs. I pity you.

MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS. IT HAS BEEN UPDATED SINCE FRIDAY.

Answer 4

A god who fits all those definitions? I don't think there is any proof for such a being. If you put enough limitations on it then you ensure that there is no proof.

I do believe that there is proof of a higher being, however. Every living cell is encoded with information. How does information spring from nothing? Doesn't information suggest intelligence?

Also, while it does not prove a god, look up bacterial flagellar motor. This amazing piece of machinery cannot be explained by evolution. The Cambrian Explosion also raises some interesting problems for evolution.

Answer 5

Do you believe George Washington existed? The only thing we have to go by is writings about him. Do you believe all religions are false? I have been baptized, but I cannot say christianity is the right religion (those who disagree, do not take your view to the extreme using bin ladens belief as an example.) Look at a watch, someone had to make it. The only thing religious people can go by is faith. The bible was written by humans, but those who wrote it were never seen. Religious people must trust those who wrote the bible. If you trust what was written by and about George Washington then why can't you trust what was written by those who wrote the Bible?

Answer 6

You have to proof it yourself.Had you ever dream of a place you had not come across even in papers,video,TV programs.etc......this is how.Watch the time before and after.Sit down and rest alone,close your both eyes.Breathe slowly and feel your breathing.Do not think of anything.Just focus on the spot between both eyes brow.Do not follow any of the image you are about to feel.Try three times only.More than that you had to paid for the price?That is a tiny bit of supernatural power (0.0001%).Images that you will never be able to explain.May God Bless You...........Ai Mi Tuo Fo

Answer 7

Our existence for one, even the scientist say that there has to be supreme being. The Bible, which was written by inspired men chosen by God, and would be impossible to have been written by man alone, it taken 1600 years to write and man would have given up on it long before it was half way. The prophesies have been correct, from the beginning to the present.

Answer 8

Throughout human history, our species has been faced with the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos. BUT THERE IS ORDER WITHIN CHAOS. Proof of god lies within humans. What if consciousness never stopped evolving? What if consciousness was infinite? All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration so where does this energy come from?

Answer 9

Google the Cyrus Cylinder .

I offer historical proof. Not mathematical proofs. If one researches the Bible with NO preconception of the existence or non-existence of God, he/she will find the answer. Simply deciding that there is no God is not very scientific would you agree?

There is an abundance of historical evidence of the Bible's and the Torah's historical accuracy. Archaeologist often turn to the Bible to search for artifacts.

Answer 10

Depends what you consider valid proof. Believers see, or think they see, proof everywhere they look. Some atheists wouldn't believe in God if he descended from heaven with a host of arch angels, moved mountains with a word, cured cancer, raised the dead, ended poverty, turned water into wine and restored the human race to the Garden of Eden.

You don't care about proofs and rebuttals. You don't care about what's real or what's fantasy. You only care about evangelizing your personal point of view.