If complexity requires creation and the creator is complex, why doesn't the creator need to be created?

Question

Does some complexity NOT require creation?

Bryan: You are making it even harder to explain. You are saying God is extremely complex. Wouldn't that require a creator according to you?

More Tea: Correct. More stuffing, Madam?

The answer is that complexity does not require a creator.

Bryan: Then why do some Christians try to use logic to show that a creator is needed when they say complexity requires creation. Aren't they in over their head too? How do they know that?

Answer 1

Again, lousy logic.

If something exists, then something exists necessarily. So, if anything exists, then something must have always existed.

For Atheism to work logicially, the universe itself must be eternal. That would work.

Up until the work of Fredrick Hubble, it was thought that the universe was static, and therefore eternal, and therefore a creator would be "unemployed" in such a universe. You could choose to believe in one or not, but if matter itself was necessary and eternal, there was no logically compelling reason to believe in one.

Einstien's Theory of Relativity pointed to the fact that the universe is expanding, which means, if you run time backwards, that the universe would contract, eventually to a single point (a singularity) at which the laws of physics break down. He created a "cosmologic constant" in order to make the theory fit the static universe theory, not because Relativity fit that model, but because he found the notion of a universe with a beginning to be "philosophically repugnant".

When Hubble published his work, Einstein had to retract that part of the theory. He ended up being a theist (not an atheist, and not a Christian).

Conversely, if matter/the universe is not eternal, then something else must be. It again is completely logical to say that God is eternal and uncreated, just as the static universe theorists used to say about matter/the universe. Incidently, the Judeao-Christian view is the only one who places God outside of time and space, and even mentions that the cosmos will eventually wear out...)

The problem is not with the concept of a creator. The problem is in the logical presuppositions of your question

Also, you have confused complexity and information. Complexity does not necessitate a creator... Information would. Creating something out of nothing would...

Answer 2

I don't believe there is any ONE creator. It seems more reasonable that different types of energy collided at some point and the resulting mix interacted with the other forces, etc, etc..eventually there would be a multitude of 'beings' that 'created' humans out of curiosity...
there's another idea I've heard. And it's more comprehensible to me than there's a single deity creating things for no reason.

Answer 3

Complexity does NOT a require creator. What random chance creates can be, and often is, extraordinarily complex

Answer 4

This question makes one interesting assumption: the creator is subject to its creation. We do not consider ourselves subject to our own creations, so why is this applied to God and His creation?

Try to explain ourselves according to something we have created. Is this possible? Can we explain our existence through our own creations?

Are we not separate from those creations?

Therefore, if God is the creator of this universe and everything in it (time included), why do we try to explain Him through His creation? Why do we make Him subject to His own creation when we do not make the same assumption for ourselves?

Answer 5

God is eternal. He has always been and will always be. The world hasn't always been there, therefore it was created. You should contemplate about the creation rather than the creator becuase humans do not have the capacity to even imagine God.

Answer 6

Yes, it is very complex. Even I, as a very spritual believer I do not understand how God came about. The only thing that I can speak of is that at one point in the bible, someone asked his age and origin and he simply said........" I AM".

Answer 7

Your thinking in what your human mind has a scope of. God is not human, he is above humanity, and human terms. He is devine. Quit comparing him in a human world, to human terms, by humans. You can't understand that complexity of god because he is above your human thinking.

Your a smart boy, can't you understand what I'm saying. Your comparing God (devine enity) to human terms, in human logic. He is above that. He is beyond that. We can't comprehend God, because of our scope of thinking, in literal human terms.

This is not gonna be very acurate, but I'm gonna try and dumb it down for you. Can you teach an ant, to type on a computer, and create a virus to destory the governments mainframe. The answer is No, because there brain can not comprehend the logic of it. Same with God an Us. We are but ants, when it comes to terms with logic compared to God.

Cause they don't understand. God is above logic, God is above everything. You can't use logic to prove God. You either believe or you don't. End story,

Answer 8

Because there isn't a "creator". Why do people assume that because something exists it must have been created? and by a man no less.

Answer 9

That's too complex to figure out.

Answer 10

Your small, little mind cannot handle the compexity of the answer. Which by the way, I don't fully comprehend myself. I do know that God Is. Period. God Is. God Was. God will Always Be.