Shall we debate?

Question

The Bible tells us that Jesus was the son of God. It also gives many of his own words, teaching about God, life and spirituality. So, how do Christians justify that they are going to heaven when the Bible clearly does not say that.....
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

the above is form Revelations, chapter 21.
Also, man is promised, in the Old Testament, that God will one day renew the earth, and it will be mans inheritance. All throughout the Old and New Testaments this is repeated again and again. The promise of the Kingdom is the promise of the New Jerusalem...the one that is coming out of heaven and will be here, on the new earth.
And, do not tell me, please, that the Old Testament is no longer valid. If that were so, then all the prophecies would already have come true. Additionally, let me say this.....The Old Testament was the Hebrews relationship with God...the New Testament expands and includes the Gentiles relationship with God. Jesus himself quoted and refined the teaching in the Old Testament, but he never said it was no longer to be followed.

Manhattan Girl...there is no "seven deafly sins" in the Bible.

oops...deadly, that is

Manhattan Girl...I sincerely apologize. I didn't understand. Thanks!
To all of you...to some, thank tyou...to others...you are sadly mistaken. To the one in particular who suggests a good church..well, I have studied in Catholic, Baptist (3 different types) Methodist, Evangelical, Lutheran, I even studied with a Rabbi ( a friends father) and you know what? They are all bunk. Christianity isn't the church, its the belief.

Gee....its going to be very difficult indeed to pick a bestanswer. But I promise I will...tomorrow morning. I can't believe how many of you actually are willing to consider a viewpoint that may differ from your own. I say, Bravo! You, thinkers and Christian alike, deserve the best answer...each of you.
Also, to the one of you who no longer believes, I can only say, I have also passed this road, and found th other side...may you soon find the other side yourself. And no, I am not saying that you do not have a valid point...what I am saying is this...as life goes on, so do things change. Blessed be...........

Answer 1

It is clear to see that the comments made here on this question, that they will not see it to be any other way, except their destination is heaven. The bible clearly states that only 144,000 thousand will go to heaven, and the bible clearly states the condition of the 144,000 thousand. God has never promised Adam a gateway into heaven, if he disobeyed, his punishment was death. God has not changed his plans for mankind. He created this earth for us and this is our home. The 144,000 thousand will help rule with Jesus. What are they going to rule over? US!

For the righteous there will be no heavenly throne, but there will be a beautiful paradise earth where there will be no sickness no death and no tears. Food will be in abundance. Why say all this if heaven is our destination? You need none of that in heaven.

Answer 2

First things first. The Old Testament WAS done away with when Christ died on the Cross. We are not required to follow the commandments of the Old Testament only the New Testament. When you die, how many of your Testaments or Wills are valid?? Only the last one and it is only valid when you die. Jesus died on the cross to fulfil the Old Testament and institute a New Testament for us. They cannot both be valid at the same time. Here are the scriptures that confirm this:

"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah - not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt” (Jeremiah 31:31,32)

"In that He says, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away" (Hebrews 8:13).

"For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect..." (Hebrews 7:18,19).

"Then He said, 'Behold, I have come to do Your will, 0 God.' He takes away the first that He may establish the second" (Hebrews 10:9).

"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity, there is also a change of the law" (Hebrews 7:12).

"Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements (the Law of Moses) that was against us, which was contrary to us, And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Colossians 2:14)

Getting that out of the way, when you read Revelation, you have to keep in mind that alot of what you are reading is symbolism. There are no "literal" 7 headed beasts, it is figurative speech.

The Bible DOES say that if we live according to God's will we will inherit eternal salvation in Heaven. Here are a few verses for you to read.


"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matthew 5: 12

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7: 21

"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

These are only a few. Do a search for the word "heaven" in the onlne Bible at the link below for more.

Answer 3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also. John 14:1-3.....
This is the first teaching on the rapture in Scripture. After predicting that He was going to return to His Father's house (which He did). He promised that He would return for His followers.
Those who die before Christ comes for His church (the Bride, His followers, whatever you want to call us) and those that are raptured, they will spend time in Heaven with Jesus. Those who aren't there at this time will be on Earth going through the tribulation. (approximately 7 years of REALLY bad things). Then after all this has happened, that's when there will be a new heaven and a new earth. You need to read the WHOLE Bible, not just parts........Keep reading! God bless!

Answer 4

I am not really sure what you are asking. It seems that this passage is promising that one day Heaven and Earth will become one and the same.

What's your point?

And Christians do NOT say that the Old Testament is "no longer valid"; what we say is that the only part of the Law of Moses that applies to Christians under the New Testament are those laws which are purely moral in nature, but not those laws which only served to set Israel apart as a nation (Acts 15).

You seem to misunderstand Christian teaching & beliefs badly, and you didn't really ask a question that can be answered.

Answer 5

I was raised as a Christian. But i for one do not believe in heaven, nor do i believe in God. There is no actual proof that there is a heaven, but over the ages many millions of people have been led to believe that is where they will go when they die.

We were always taught that you will go to heaven once you die. But this all depends in which version of the bible you read. Over the years the bible has simply got lost in translation. One religion saying one thing and another religion saying another, they all cant be right can they.

Why is mankind so eager to believe that everything wrote in the bible is true? God created Heaven and Earth, God created Man. There is no actual proof of this, although many people will say the proof is all around us, the truth is the creation of the universe and life itself is much too complex for one so called God to acchieve.

Life on earth for one is simply down to evolution. Nothing to do with God.

One good example is the story of Adam and Eve. We have all believed one time or another that they were the first man and woman on earth, but how is this so when their time on earth is set to around 4000bc yet it has been proved that early man ( Sahelanthropus) lived 7 million years ago.

With this being a geological fact, it is hard to understand why so many people believe what was written over a few thousand years, and so late in the history of mankind that everything in the bible has to be true, when it could be, at the time the 1st books of the bible were wrote, that it was the 1st time mankind had questioned their existance and God and Heaven were just figments of somebodies imagination. Where they came from couldnt be explained, therefore God was created. Which gave people of this time a meaning for existance. God didnt create man, Man created God.......

Answer 6

1. is talking about after Jesus returns and all is destroyed again, then God makes it new again and Jesus is in power for 1000 yrs. Then he releases Satan again and allows him to temp man 1 last time. Heaven is to be with the LORD, that is what heaven is. The Bible also mentions heaven and means sky, as in this passage. A new sky and a new land.

3. Yes, the tabernacle is Jesus, he is with each of us. Jesus is with you when you are alive so you can be with GOD after death.

5. Again, see no. 1. He was making all new for the 1000 yrs of Jesus in power.

The Bible, Revelations, is speaking of now and the future. That is why its hard to comprehend. Some say its of old times, Rome, etc. But we has humans know that history/time repeats itself. And the imagery and metaphors fit today's world.

The 1000 yrs hasn't came yet. The new heaven and earth (sky and land) hasn't came yet, etc.

Answer 7

I am not sure if this is so, but I think the scriptures speak of a new earth and a new everything. The new Jerusalem in rev is not a literal city there are no literal cities in rev period, in fact, the first verse tells you that all of rev is not literal. I know heaven is a spiritual state of mind, like hell, you suffer for your wrong doings as you are peace(heaven when you are in his will ? I would like to know too!

Answer 8

Would this not indicate that if there is both new Heaven and Earth, and that we will have access to them both? I believe currently when people die, they go to a holding place, Heaven or Hell. I believe paradise is gone. (The graves were opened and many saints appeared to those in the city).
But doesn't Jesus also say enter in?

Joh 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. Jesus also says He will go to the Father. Jesus said pray our Father which art in Heaven.. .

So, I know you will choose tomorrow. But I believe I can make a case for this.

Answer 9

And the debate is what exactly?

You take no position.

Here's mine: The entire bible was written by some tribesmen and those that came after them some 2000 years ago over a period of time. It started out as writing down an origin myth (one of many I might add) and over the years various ranting madmen (sorry, I mean prophets) added their bits. In between, it was translated several times, transcripted, interpreted, copied, voted on (canonization) until it finally reached the form of the 30-50 odd bible versions we have today.
It was _not_ actually written or inspired by a god in any way.

Case in point: I also think the bible tells women to shut up.

Answer 10

So your contention is that there is no heaven that people will go to after this life, but instead they will remain here on Earth, after it has been made into a paradise, and God will live here with us...

Sounds like heaven to me... Am I missing something?