What qualifies as evidence of God's existance?

Question

"Creation you dolt!!".

Sorry, thats circular. Calling it "creation" assumes it was created, as opposed to a product of totally random forces interacting of billions of years.

"Miracles!"

Ok, that might count if we could only find things that cannot be explained via science and only explained by the existance of a God. Still waiting for one "miracle" that stands up to scrutiny, although I wish there was such a thing.

"There is no evidence, you must take it on faith"?

Why? Ever thought about that? I mean, I used to think the concept of "faith" was special too, but then I thought about it. I mean, basically all your saying is that "I chose engage in wishful thinking based on nothing other than my hopes".

If God did exist, would he really be impressed with that?

"Yes he would, he wants us to have faith like a dog".

You mean faith like a child, and for the life of me, I cant figure out what the heck is virtuous about that or why I ever accepted it.

Answer 1

You are absolutely correct. The first you mentioned is just the "argument from ignorance" logical fallacy. The problem being I am simply not ignorant enough. I can see several possible alternatives. The one I Iean to is physicist Max Tegmark's "Theory of Everything".

You left out the argument from personal revelation, which is also called "the argument from schizophrenia".

Answer 2

I'll comment in regard to your Miracles! section.

I would like all the brilliant scientist in the world to get together and tell me what holds the nucleus of an atom together. We all know that like charges repel. Positively charged particles in the nucleus of the atom should repel. There is a force which holds it together though. Although I've never heard of anyone measuring this force (with scientific method) or figuring out exactly how it works.
This may fit in to the answer you are looking for.

Christ is the one through whom God created everything in heaven and earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see kings, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities. Everything has been created through him and for him. He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.

This tells me what the force is that holds all of creation together.

Your train of thought is very biased based on your belief system. If you knew everything and had all knowledge you would have the right to make conclusive statements about anything...but since you don't there are some things that require faith. However, evidence of creation is not one of them. Look at the intricacy of your eye and how it works the idea that we evolved is assanine not to mention mathematically impossible (according to math it is more likely statistically that a coca cola can formed from nothing, by chance, than a human body), it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does creation...to be frank we have more evidence of creation than evolution, but that is your religion. Yes, evolution has not been observed according to scientific method therefore it is a religion.

Answer 3

Enlightenment is the unqualified proof of the existence of god. Until such time as enlightenment takes hold in the individual, there is only faith.

Only problem with this 'proof' is you have to become enlightened, which is not easy to do. Even then, the answer only lives in the subjective experience of the individual, so it can't be conveyed to others. And even then, it only happens once. So it is not something that can be repeated, as in the scientific method.

If you have already decided that there is no evidence of the existence of god, why do you insist on demanding that those who have only their faith show you proof? Haven't the spiritual advisers of the past told you to look inward for the answers? Don't ask us for proof that we cannot provide. That is tantamount to entrapment, or asking leading questions.

If you don't know what it means to look inward for the answer, that is where you should direct your effort. Figure it out! Discrediting religion only serves the ego. What a pitiful waste of time. By the way, it's spelled existence, with an 'e'.

Update:

When I first read your question, I read it in the light of someone who is trying to discredit the faithful. I returned to the question after some time and realized that you are not attempting to discredit anyone. You are trying to find a logical solution to a mystery!

I realized that you are not accepting the meaningless answers that most people provide. That is a healthy dose of doubt! Blind faith really does not satisfy everybody. In particular, it does not serve the more intelligent, more sophisticated thinkers of our species.

If there is no proof of the existence of god, then how is it even *possible* for anyone to be sure? Based on historical accounts, people have made claim to having experiences that have convinced them of the existence of god. I have not met anyone on this forum who has convinced me of such an experience. Those claiming to have such an experience have been very simplistic in their ability to describe it.

However, if someone did have such an experience, that *informed* faith would be a different beast altogether! The spiritually enlightened of the past were strong in their faith because they were informed as to the existence of deity through their personal experience. I am talking the likes of Paul of Tarsus, St. Augustine of Hippo, Mother Theresa of Calcutta, Gautama Siddhartha, Paramhansa Yogananda, Etc.

I assure their faith was not blind.

Answer 4

There are five ways to prove the existence of God, using the method of St. Thomas Aquinas. I will only talk about two of them, as the others sail into the deepest of philosophical waters. Ready?

1. The first mover. It is common knowledge, a scientific law, that everything in rest stays at rest and every thing in motion stays in motion until acted on by an outside force. The law of Inertia, one of Isaac Newton's laws.

Now, If this is true, lets take a look at the beginning of the universe. A widely accepted view is the Big Bang Theory. What is it? All the matter in the universe was contained in one tiny speck, so small, it hardly existed, but then, pressure inside the speck became so great, it exploded into the universe. But what causes pressure? The speed of molecules in motion. Since the start of the universe was the first natural thing to ever happen, because there was nothing natural before it, then there is no explanation for the motion of the molecules besides a First Mover, himself unmoved, who we call God. Its only logical.

2. The need for a Creator. The law of conservation of mass states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, only modified. This proof falls along the same lines as the first, but is slightly different.

Again we will look at the beginning of the universe. All matter contained in one speck right? The first natural thing to happen. You see, the universe wouldn't be here unless the laws of nature were created with it. If matter couldn't be created, then how did it get here. An outside force created it, and this Force we call God.

If you want to see the rest, look at the Summa Theologica, by Thomas Aquinas. Look at part one, I believe question two, on the existence of God. Undeniable Logic. Just like Science.

Answer 5

The existance of God can not be "shown", because no count number how a lot data you need to help your idea, the alternative is that of the guy. attempting to educate the existance of God is like attempting to proove why McDonalds is more beneficial advantageous than Burger King. think ofyou've got a million causes on your case, yet a persons'' convictions are what make people so unique. in the top the arguments and hatred spent on which faith is ideal and it is faulty is only a sad lack of having an open suggestions.

Answer 6

Something observable and reproduceable. Everyone in the world hearing the exact same phrase in their own language at the exact same time would be a good start.

Here are some examples of what is NOT evidence:

My favorite is "I know in my heart that god exists". Please! That is a simple-minded statement, where the person who says it has found a comfortable imaginary friend they don't want to give up. An imaginary security blanket that makes them feel important ("the most powerful being in the universe cares about ME, I am so special!").

My second favorite is "evidence is all around us in the birds and the trees and the sky..." blah blah blah. Sorry, science explains all that, read a biology book.

Frustrating sometimes, living with adults who think like children...

Answer 7

While sitting in a machine gun pit in the Mojave Desert I looked up and without the lights from surrounding towns, and without a visible horizon, the number of stars visible made me realize that the stupid concept of ME-ism was really quite insignificant. Additionally I realized that for all of man's individual and corporate genius that no one person could understand what I was looking at.

From the macro to the micro there is just too much evidence of order and design as opposed to the order out of chaos theory. There was a Chritian there in that pit with me who said to me "What, you don't believe in God?!" "Look around"

As intricate as the heavens appear, looking inward at cellular and molecular structure, there is as much detail...

It's not random.

Putting metal and plastic into a garage for a billion years won't generate a car.

You probably will never have your opinion changed but htat's what I have for you.

Answer 8

Have you not noticed yet that you choose to engage in wishful thinking based on nothing other than your hopes.

You hope that the earth was formed from nothing. You hope that when you die, you will not exist. You hope that there is no Savior. You hope that there is no Hell.

You can't prove that there is no God not even with science. You really have a strong faith. I too have a strong faith in the existence and relationship with the Love that is too strong and precious to deny.

Answer 9

I used to feel the same way as you until I saw avaddohn-Apolly's answer. She's right! The forks in a tree are shaped like the letter Y. I don't know how we non-believers never saw that before.

There you go PragmaticMan... conclusive proof that God exists.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...etc.

Answer 10

There is a great deal of difference between blind faith and true faith. True faith is love in action. It is what keeps us moving forward to gain greater knowledge and understanding of who we are and what are place in the universe is. Problem is not many religious people show this kind of faith; they accept blindly that their religious dogma is the absolute truth. One the other hand, science is driven by true faith.