How can we 'enlighten' Muslims?

Question

Muslims who defend practices like flogging, stoning, and the execution of apostates don't strike me as idiots. They just strike me as people who really do believe what they're saying, people who have been taught that things we in the modern world consider barbaric and uncivilized are actually normal and acceptable through a powerful socialization radically different from our own. How can we enlighten peaceful Muslims and show them that although we mean them no disrespect, we find their beliefs by all means completely unacceptable, for good reasons?

"start by reading their book the Quran to know where they are coming from"

I've done so.

what you are calling barbaric and uncivilized is for

1- heinous crimes
Heinous crimes like adultery? Fornication? Homosexuality? Theft? Leaving Islam? Marrying a non-Muslim man?

2- In order to implement it Very strict restrictions has to be applied which will guarantee that the offender deserve this punishments
For the offender to deserve a punishment, he or she must have commited a crime. Again, are these really crimes?

Take stoning for adultery as an example, it would take four witnesses to prove the crime, four witnesses who have seen the actual penetration. Which is impossible to prove do you agree or not?
No, if it were impossible to prove, there would be no stonings. But stonings are still carried out in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Nigeria, etc. - and Islamic countries are the only places where this is the case in the 21st century.

Even the pregnancy of an unmarried women would not prove adultery. And if you confess to adultery your confession is valid only on you not your partner.
But if you confess, you would be stoned to death, would you not? It's the same punishment for men and women.

To steal and for the punishment of cutting your hand to be carried out 11 conditions have to be. Yes 11 that will cover every thing from the fact that you are not in a bad need for money and that you were not tempted to do it because some one left his valuables unattended as well as other conditions.
Care to name these eleven conditions? Care to give examples? Go to the theft verse in the Koran in Ibn Kathir's interpretation. He quoted Muhammad saying whoever steals an egg or a rope, cut off their hand.

Don’t be fooled by the implementation of these laws in countries like Pakistan and Nigeria they are simply wrong
Are they? Laws in these countries are set by muftis and sheikhs and other ulama'. People who are much more learned about Islamic law than you or me.

I mean the barbaric way you are talking about will never jail or cut the hand of a thief that stole a slice of pizza, but the civilized way in California USA will send him to prison for life if this is his third offence.
What does Islam do to repetitive thieves? They have other limbs cut off after their right hand, and if they persist, they are put to death.

now you tell me which is barbaric and which is civilized?
Yep. Stoning, flogging, crucifixion, and executing people for their religious decisions, all of which exist in Islamic law, have no place in a civilized society. Western legal systems aren't perfect, but they are certainly a world ahead.

"Have a little understanding and respect for those of us who do NOT condone these actions that you have listed. We're not the ones who need 'enlightening' if you think that all Muslims do condone this. I pride myself on being a follower of true Islam, not the divided sects of the Middle East."

You're a Muslim and you don't support these practices and I commend you for that. But the question is, do you think this way because of Islam, or in spite of it? 'True' Islam has its foundations in the Koran and Sonah, and as far as I know, the Koran sanctions amputating the hands of thieves and flogging adulterers and fornicators, while other punishments are found in the Book of Al Bokhari.

Answer 1

start by reading their book the Quran to know where they are coming from

what you are calling barbaric and uncivilized is for

1- heinous crimes
2- In order to implement it Very strict restrictions has to be applied which will guarantee that the offender deserve this punishments

Take stoning for adultery as an example, it would take four witnesses to prove the crime, four witnesses who have seen the actual penetration. Which is impossible to prove do you agree or not?

Even the pregnancy of an unmarried women would not prove adultery. And if you confess to adultery your confession is valid only on you not your partner.

To steal and for the punishment of cutting your hand to be carried out 11 conditions have to be. Yes 11 that will cover every thing from the fact that you are not in a bad need for money and that you were not tempted to do it because some one left his valuables unattended as well as other conditions.

Don’t be fooled by the implementation of these laws in countries like Pakistan and Nigeria they are simply wrong

I mean the barbaric way you are talking about will never jail or cut the hand of a thief that stole a slice of pizza, but the civilized way in California USA will send him to prison for life if this is his third offence.

now you tell me which is barbaric and which is civilized?

God bless

Answer 2

Good question. I am not taking any offence to that. First of all let me tell you the representation of Islam you are seeing is not the real Islam. It is not a barbaric religion. However, just taking a look at countries like Afghanistan you cannot generalize the whole Muslim world. Muslims have always encouraged education. Countries like Malaysia and Turkey have had high literacy rates. Maybe the part of being not modern is a concern for you. Islam encourages modesty among women so they can be respected and not treated as sexual objects. Think about it. If you see a girl on the beach wearing a bra. You would continiously look towards her and want to sleep with her. Premarital sex is forbidden in our religion. It is avoid the corruption that comes towards it. In the Muslim world, there is lesser prostitution, lesser cases of AIDS and less illegtimate children. IF you are thinking about those terrorists, let me tell you they represent only few percent of the Muslim population. According to me they are not considered Muslim at all. Our religion has grown a lot through conversion. Not forced conversion! People in the Western world are reading a lot about it. At the time of 911 many converted to Islam. Why do you suppose? Ask all the new converts to ISlam. They were part of the modern world. If the modern world was so perfect, why did they chose this religion. There is something to it. It is the beauty of this religion that has grown into a civilization. Islam is practised in North Afric, the Middle East and SE Asia and growing minorities in Europe, Australia and the US. None of the religions have grown so faster. Here is my suggestion to you my friend, please take time to meet muslim people. They will glad to answer your questions. I am sure you will not be disappointed.

Answer 3

what you don't understand is that the religion is not responsible. It is indeed silly to implicate any inanimate object as a culprit in wrongdoing, much less an intangible like an idea. it is not a bad religion, in fact it's the same as the christian religion and in fact the next generation of the cultural string that began with the jews and whatever unkown civiliztions that came befgore them. You are actually denying a cutural progression that has been ongoing for a long long time. Old things die out and remain as a curiousity.

Violence is due to many geopolitical and cultural factors aside from religion. Muslims exist all over the world and most people live very ordinary lives. What we call the mideast has traditionaly been the meeting ground between eastern and western cultures with obvious tensions. I think all religion is dumb.

Answer 4

To me as a Muslimah, imprisonment as favoured in the west, is a far more cruel and barbaric punishment than flogging. Although it is a severe punishment, I would rather my husband or I were flogged than be separated from my familiy for weeks or months in prison. The flogging is over quickly and the wounds eventually heal. Imprisonment denies the father the ability to earn money for his family or the mother the ability to look after her family. According to Shariah law, Islamic floggings are carried out in public and so have a much more effective deterrent effect than the imprisonment punishment where prisoners are locked away and forgotten. Countries with Shariah law normally have very low crime rates compared to western countries.

Answer 5

Have a little understanding and respect for those of us who do NOT condone these actions that you have listed. We're not the ones who need 'enlightening' if you think that all Muslims do condone this. I pride myself on being a follower of true Islam, not the divided sects of the Middle East.

Answer 6

Strong punishments mean strong deterrence, And that's the point behind Punishments (Hudood), It's to ensure that we live in a crime-free society, where safety, justice and equality are spread to all.

you're an apostate, that's your problem, just don't come back to Islamic countries.

Answer 7

wait, hold on. wat beliefs. if ur talking about violence, then ur only looking at the extremists who are a small percentage. muslims are for the most part peaceful. and I believe are not allowed to use violent means unless for self defense and defense of religion, which no one is doing. most violence is political. i dont think theyre is a need to englighten them, but for the ones that do have problems, im not sure. but u will always see them, even in other religions (reconquista, inquisition, crusades, etc.)

Answer 8

The same way non-christians (I assume christians is what you mean by "we") enlighten christians and make them understand their religion makes them pointlessly crusade against science, culture, art, sex and sexuality, religious freedom and such, and that torture is a bad thing although their god condones it.

I.E. not gonna happen.

Answer 9

. Islam commands us to shun robbery and also prescribes method of eleminating robbery


Islam prescribes method of eliminating robbery
All major religions teach that theft is an evil act. Islam teaches the same. So what is the difference between Islam and the other religions? The difference lies in the fact that Islam, besides teaching that robbing is evil, shows a practical way of creating a social structure in which people will not rob.

Islam prescribes Zakaat
Islam prescribes a system of Zakaat (obligatory annual charity). Islamic law prescribes that every person who has a saving that exceeds the nisaab level i.e. more than 85 grams of gold, should give 2.5% of that saving every lunar year in charity. If every rich person in the world gave Zakaat sincerely, poverty will be eradicated from this world. Not a single human being would die of hunger.

Chopping off the hands as punishment for robbery
Islam prescribes chopping off the hands of the convicted robber. The Glorious Qur’an says in Surah Maidah:
"As to the thief, male or female, cut off his or her hands:a punishment by way
of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power, full of wisdom."
[ Al-Qur’an 5:38]
The non-Muslim may say, "Chopping off the hands in this 20th century. Islam is a barbaric and ruthless religion!"

Results achieved when Islamic Shariah Implemented
America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries in the world. Unfortunately it also has one of the highest rates of crime, theft, and robbery. Suppose the Islamic shariah is implemented in America i.e. every rich person gives Zakaat ( 2.5% of his savings in charity above 85 grams of gold every lunar year), and every convicted robber has his or her hands chopped off as a punishment. Will the rate of theft and robbery in America increase, remain same or decrease? Naturally it will decrease. Moreover the existence of such a stringent law would discourage many a potential robber.

I agree that the amount of theft that takes place in the world today is so tremendous that if you chop off the hands of all the thieves, there will be tens of thousands of people whose hands will be chopped off. The point here is that the moment you implement this law the rate of theft will decline immediately. The potential robber would give it a serious thought before jeopardizing his limbs. The mere thought of the punishment itself will discourage majority of the robbers. There will barely be a few who would rob. Hence only a few person’s hands would be chopped off but millions would live peacefully without fear of being robbed.

Islamic Shariah is therefore practical, and achieves results.

Hijaab prevents molestation


The reason why Hijaab is prescribed for women is mentioned in the Qur’an in the following verses of Surah Al-Ahzab:

"O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad); that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 33:59]

The Qur’an says that Hijaab has been prescribed for the women so that they are recognized as modest women and this will also prevent them from being molested.


6. Example of twin sisters


Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijaab i.e. the complete body is covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is wearing western clothes, a mini skirt or shorts. Just around the corner there is a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijaab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an rightly says that hijaab prevents women from being molested.


7. Capital punishment for the rapists


Under the Islamic shariah, a man convicted of having raped a woman, is given capital punishment. Many are astonished at this ‘harsh’ sentence. Some even say that Islam is a ruthless, barbaric religion! I have asked a simple question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose, God forbid, someone rapes your wife, your mother or your sister. You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to death. To them I ask, if someone rapes your wife or your mother you want to put him to death. But if the same crime is committed on somebody else’s wife or daughter you say capital punishment is barbaric. Why should there be double standards?


8. Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women


Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.


9. USA has one of the highest rates of rape


United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape in any country in the world. According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years.

Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijaab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijaab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease?


10. Implementation of Islamic Shariah will reduce the rate of rapes


Naturally as soon as Islamic Shariah is implemented positive results will be inevitable. If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breathe easier. Hijaab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity.