Christians: Can God have two qualities which cannot exist together?

Question

Examples:
Omnipotence and omniscience: If omnipotent, he can change his mind, which would make him no longer omniscient because he doesn't know what he will do in the future. If omniscient, he knows what he will do in the future and thus can't change his mind. If he can't change his mind he's not omnipotent.

In fact, if he's omniscient, he can't have free will because he can't do anything other than what he knows he will do.

If he's omnipotent, he could make himself omniscient. Since those can't exist together he can't be omnipotent.

se-ke: I'm not talking about WHETHER he chooses, I am talking about whether he is ABLE to choose. If he is able to choose, then he is not omniscient.

Socinian: I never said you have to be omnipotent to change your mind. I said that if you are omniscient you CAN'T change your mind.

Answer 1

File this one under the God Paradox. It seems to me that this is a great line of reasoning for god not to exist. But then I'm already an atheist.

Answer 2

You do not have to be omnipotent to change your mind.None of what you say follows from the premises.But I am sure it is difficult for you.What you are trying to say but cannot even say, is that if God is omniscient why would he ever need to change his mind. You then involve omnipotence which has nothing to do with it.Not needing to change your mind is different from not being able to change your mind.
You are off.

Additional info:

Meatbot
You said "if omnipotent then he can change his mind" That seems to be a conditional if-then, statement, saying if the condition is satisfied, then the consequence follows. So you did say that.You then say " which would make him no longer omniscient" what ? the omnipotence or the changing the mind?
You then try to explain your reasoning by saying, I shall paraphrase because you are unclear 'because change would imply (in your mind) that God doesn't know what he will do in the future'. This is totally wrong. If change is planned in advance then it is known beforehand and does not imply a lack of omniscience but can be a demonstration of it. Omnipotence has nothing to do with this, this is saying that omnipotence includes within it the power to be wrong, ignorant or illogical in your mind and since omniscience is all knowing , that would be a contradiction, in your mind.
Then you assume and imply without proof, that ' if one knows what one will do in the future, he cannot change his mind'. This is confusing the finite with the infinite, how things appear to us in progression and the way things were planned. All things cannot happen at once but in order and each succession of events is change. Why cannot God have a plan that says I will do this and I know that I am going to do that and then I am going to do that after. Again I will say that not needing to change your mind is different from not being able to change your mind.

Answer 3

Think of it as a video game that is programmed to respond to whatever command it has been given. It is setup to give a certain response to that command and a different response to a different command and the video game always remains the same. I have pondered that question myself. Since we have been given freedom to make our own choices, maybe we get the responses we get from the choices we make and he knows were all choices will lead us. The program can be revised or even or completely changed into another program at anytime if The Supreme Creator of it desired. We seek answers as we should because we our seeking to have a personal relationship with our Creator. We don't know how things should be and many believe the Creator does. I try to follow The Creator's will by trusting everything will work itself out according to The Creator's plan(s). Unconditional love and forgiveness are a key to following this WILL in my opinion. Often what is best in the long run is not easy, but worthwhile. Check out the Movie " The Secret " which explains a lot about the Law or Attraction ( I think this would be of interest to you as it has to many ).

Answer 4

Logical arguments presuppose a favored conclusion. Something like - how can an atheist have faith that God doesn't exist? You cannot disprove His existence. Therefore God must exist.

Changing our minds is what we do when we decided something else would be better - a decision we make as we change through life, or get more information on a topic. Maybe even that we're now hungry and would maybe like a burger.

You argument fails with the presupposition that God would need to change His mind. Since He is omniscient, He already knows everything - and thus has no need to change His mind. As He lives outside of time (transcends time) He already knows everything, and what He has done. In one sense, He has already done everything - it's now just up to Time to work through.

Answer 5

Why do you opt to have self assurance in god in case you have already got your reasons for believing that he does not exist? you do no longer must be an atheist or a christian. the two a style of thoughts are illogical through fact on the only hand, the atheist, is saying that he's acquainted with each thing, that he's acquainted with that there is not any longer a god. And the christian or the different god adoring freak thinks they understand that there certainly IS a god through fact of a few ridiculous tale it relatively is been tossed around and recycled through fact the Egyptian a while, hundreds of years earlier "jesus christ". (Horus, the solar god. superb tale as jesus, look it up.) the main rational element to do would be to in basic terms say you do no longer understand if some thing exists or no longer. considering you recognize what? you do no longer! And no person does!!! you do no longer choose a god as a manner to aid you recognize the form to be a robust guy or woman, or which you need to no longer kill your neighbor and rape your daughter, you need to already understand that's no longer superb. besides, believing in god out of worry is stupid too. that's like, oh, i visit be a robust guy or woman so i visit get into heaven! you recognize who has those comparable superb emotions? An 8 year old being a robust youngster so he gets supplies on christmas day. purely be agnostic through fact no you are able to understand for particular what there is and is not any longer.

Answer 6

Of course - He is the Most Seen of the Seen and the Most Hidden of the Hidden. Most of the so called "paradoxes" arise because of our limited perspective and finite logic. It is like a painting trying describe its painter - absurd right?

If the painter lays down a brush stroke in 4 dimensions but the stroke can only be revealed over time in 3 dimensions - then the brush stroke represents Omnipotence and the perception of the stroke Omniscience.

What about our free will? If the painter lays down a brush stroke in an infinity of universes but we can only comprehend one but we are free to chose which one. Isn't this how Hawking's resolved his paradox? Just key adding dimensions and universes. Should all work out at infinity.

Answer 7

1. Did you steal that from the God Delusion? It sound like Dawkins to me.
2. There is a difference between describing God, and God. Concepts like omnipotence, and omniscience a human descriptions and like all models are imperfect. God can exist without any being able to describe him.

Answer 8

Hi 6000,

I do not know the definitive answer to your question. Your example however, is not a good one. The two qualities you posed can and do exsist together.

The definitions do not suppose excluscivity. To do such is a misapplication of complementary adjectives.

Om·ni·scient
Pronunciation: -sh&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin omniscient-, omnisciens, back-formation from Medieval Latin omniscientia
1 : having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight
2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge

Om·nip·o·tent
Pronunciation: -t&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin omnipotent-, omnipotens, from omni- + potent-, potens potent
1 often capitalized : ALMIGHTY 1
2 : having virtually unlimited authority or influence

Both are adjectives which describe qualities that are complementarty. They give no indication of the quality of a verb or action.

Having all knowledge does not negate having unlimited authority or influence with respect to another. It enables it does not bind.

To assume that one negates the other would suggest that one is a relevent opposet to the other. They are not. they are complementary descripters of two qualities that exsist in harmony.

I can understand your continued effort to separate as you do not believe in either as a property of Godliness but rather a state of being resulting solely from previous stimuli and without the ability to choose ones course. With such a charicterization one could not be both. Unfortunatley, the charicterization is built on a faulty premise.

We do have choise and with knowledge, the options of choise increase. It is true that as one grows in knowledge of truth one is more able to cast off falsehoods but it does not negate ones ability to use or act in any manner. Such is the case with knowlege and influence or authority. They do not negate but rather enhance each other.

That is a consistant principle with that which occurs in nature and is evident all around us. It is an eternal truth.

Answer 9

I'm afraid your logic is incorrect. God is omnipotent and omniscient. Because he is omniscient he does not need to change His mind.

Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

Answer 10

Questions like this arise due to not understanding the true meaning of omniscience, of omnipotence, or understanding God himself.

God is all powerful. That does not mean that he can do ANYTHING; it means only that he can do that which can be done and that he allows himself to do.

God is all knowing, but this does require that he use his ability to know all things at all times; he can choose to refrain from knowing if he so chooses.

God's ways are so far above human ways we cannot even scratch the surface when comes to even beginning to know him fully.

Answer 11

The question is invalid, and your reasoning aids that.
THis is mainly due to the fact that God doesn't change his mind. He is not indecisive. His plan has been confirmed all the way through. He doesn't work to a certain point and try to firgure out his way out of it. He doesn't get himself in a jam and have to work his way out of it. He does everything by reason. We, humans, are the ones who have to worry about choices because we are the ones getting ourselves into jams and not thinking our decisions all the way through.
Don't belittle God that way. He is all-knowing, so he knows the pros and cons of all decisions we make. He is all-powerful, so there is no way he can get himself 'stuck'.