I'm so tired of hearing these fundamentalists say that we were founded as a Christian nation. Here is what some of the Founders actually said:
"The story of the redemption will not stand examination. That man should redeem himself from the sin of eating an apple by committing a murder on Jesus Christ, is the strangest system of religion ever set up." - Thomas Paine
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies." - Benjamin Franklin
"Civil governments function with complete success by the total separation of the church from the state." - James Madison
"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." - Thomas Jefferson
2007-02-19 03:50:45 · 22 answers · asked by tychobrahe 3 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Aida, Ignoring the rest of your stupid answer, Franklin was a Deist, not a Christian.
So, incidentally, were most of the other founders.
2007-02-19 04:02:41 · update #1
Rap,
My quotations are real. Yours are not. Anyone who does a bit of research will see that.
Jefferson never said anything even close to that quotation of yours. You must have learned history at Sunday school.
2007-02-19 04:12:23 · update #2
I can't believe the quotations these people are making up. Imagine saying that Paine supported teaching the bible instead of astronomy. Unlike most of the other founders who were Deists, Paine was actually an unabashed atheist!
2007-02-19 04:20:27 · update #3
Ok, all anyone has to do to learn which of these quotations are real and which are not is simply Google them. If they're real, you'll find them. If they're not, you won't. I'm willing to let all of mine stand this test.
2007-02-19 04:25:52 · update #4
You're right. It frustrates me, too. Someone posted a question here about a week ago asking about "In God We Trust" on money in this country, and about 10 out of 24 people who responded said that the founding fathers put it there. I don't know whether those people just got their information from a really bad source or whether they're flat-out lying to themselves, but whatever the case, there is a total misunderstanding about what the founders actually believed.
The founding fathers were Deists and specifically chose to NOT make this a Christian country. It really amazes me how people deny that.
2007-02-19 03:57:10 · answer #1 · answered by . 7 · 2⤊ 3⤋
yes they did intend for the USA to be fundamentally Christian; just not be controlled by the oppressing English Church.
you have used several snippets of information and if applied properly each of these snippets show that the meaning is not against Christianity itself but against the English Church.
we have no idea if it was the eating of an apple that caused sin to enter our realm, we can clearly see that God said do not do it, and it was done. to jump from there to the Crucifixion ignores the rich history between the two and does make for a strange statement.
who would want to attend a Church service where you are told to give money you do not have so you would go to Heaven? Ben was right to abstain from those type of assemblies.
Madison was showing that Government Will not work if it is ran by both elected leaders and a greedy English Church. his statement can only be applied to his knowledge, Knowledge that was based on seeing how England was corrupted by the English Church.
Jefferson is stating the same as Madison.
it is easy to turn these around and not look at the context the statements are based upon. these very same people showed by infusing GOD into every early American document and the system of government that they were Christians and simply did not want to allow what was happening in England to happen here.
2007-02-19 12:10:06 · answer #2 · answered by ALEIII 3 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Here are some for you:
"The Bible is the cornerstone for American Liberty" - Thomas Jefferson
"We've staked our future in our ability to follow the 10 Commandments with all of our hearts" - James Madison
"You can't have national morality apart from religious principles" - George Washington
It is evident in the Declaration of Independence that this country of ours was founded on the sacred laws within the word of God, the BIBLE. 27 biblical laws to be exact were used in the Declaration of Independence. The reason the founding fathers put the separation of church and state was because the Founding Fathers knew the importance of Free Will and they wanted our nation to be totally free. Especially free in the realm of religion.
2007-02-19 12:16:43 · answer #3 · answered by Lacksnothing 3 · 2⤊ 1⤋
The founding fathers of the USA were setting up a government that made the People the ultimate authority. They wanted and trusted the People to direct their path to God and didn't want a requirement to force the people to be any religion or no religion for that matter.. I don't believe they had in mind that there would be any religions but the sects of Christianity but their wisdom left room for FREEDOM for all..... Jim
2007-02-19 12:00:11 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
No, they had higher hopes. Most of the founding fathers were men of faith, but they also clearly believed that one's faith is a very personal matter, a matter to be decided within one's own heart according to conscience. They went out of their way to establish a secular constitution that would preserve this freedom for each and every individual.
Even if all the founders had been orthodox Christians--which they weren't--this still would not mean that they ever intended to force everyone around them to ignore their own consciences and religious traditions and blindly follow Christian principles just because that's what they believed. This would have been anathema to their conception of personal liberty. Naturally they were influenced by the Bible, but they were also greatly influenced by Enlightenment philosophy.
Thomas Paine's critics accused him of being an atheist, but he wasn't. He was a deist.
"How different is [Christianity] to the pure and simple profession of Deism! The true Deist has but one Deity, and his religion consists in contemplating the power, wisdom, and benignity of the Deity in his works, and in endeavoring to imitate him in everything moral, scientifical, and mechanical."
2007-02-19 12:02:13 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 2⤋
I'll just point out that Thomas Jefferson's idea of separation of church and state is not the idea being currently passed around. Good evidence of this would be the fact that he attended the largest assembly of baptist in that day and age. And they held their church services in the same building that the House of Representatives held their assemblies.
2007-02-19 11:57:55 · answer #6 · answered by Jason M 5 · 2⤊ 1⤋
I have sooo much respect for the forefathers. They were educated men of the enlightenment - look at the US now - is it renowned for the best education systems? Yeah, right. The idea is a joke. Its a refuge for pre-scientific world views that have been obsolete since Galileo. The way evolution is perceived in America is embarrassing.
They'd be broken hearted to see what religion and despicable politics had done to their dream. It remains to be seen if its too late for the US to be put back on track. It would take at least 30 years to fix all the damage that's been done, and thats an optimistic figure.
2007-02-19 11:55:13 · answer #7 · answered by Leviathan 6 · 2⤊ 2⤋
The founders recognized that a Power greater than themselves had a hand in the creation of the United States. Their definition of the separation of church and state meant freedom OF religion, not freedom from it.
2007-02-19 11:58:03 · answer #8 · answered by Paulie D 5 · 3⤊ 1⤋
NO. Many were deists, very few were Christians, and some were agnostic and possibly even atheist (though few could admit to being such straight out).
But I believe all recognized the problems with an entanglement of religion and government.
2007-02-19 11:54:07 · answer #9 · answered by ZER0 C00L ••AM••VT•• 7 · 1⤊ 2⤋
Treaty of Tripoli 1798, Article 11:
The United States is in no way founded on the Christian Faith.. that should about do it for an answer.
2007-02-19 11:54:24 · answer #10 · answered by Kallan 7 · 2⤊ 2⤋