It has been said God is soverign overall: I have 3 points to make: 1) God intends for the human race to flourish and bring us the best 2) God is soverign overall 3) If God intends the best for us, and God is soverign overall, then at the end of the day when the curtain falls God will win. How can God truly have won if there are people in hell? Don't you agree at the end of it all God will have what he wants, and I'm sure what he wants is to be soverign overall. For him to be SOVERIGN OVER (not some) but ALL, people can't remain in hell at the end. Also how can we be happy in heaven if our loved ones are in hell, and if we lose our memories in heaven then why is christianity all about relationships and loving the ones on earth? It would be cruel to kill our relationships with our loved ones. God made us for relationships. Is there redemption in hell?
Let me finish writing everything please, thank you for your time.
2007-02-16 18:20:38 · 18 answers · asked by Aragon 1 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
What about someone who was born before Christ? Would they go to heaven or hell?
If God was a just God, lets say Hitler killed 100,000 people and for every person he killed he must suffer 10,000 years in hell. That is a lot of years but on the line of eternality it is just a speck and a dot. How can a Just God give eternal punishment for finite sin?
Another point is, I am merely a man, can i resist God forever? I mean can i resist God for eternality? What if we changed in hell or became Good and we paid the price for our sins. Will we still be in hell even if we accepted god? God is soverign overall. I believe when everything is over, God will beat lucifer and for God to truly be soverign over him. He must save all in hell or else he is never truly soverign overall. I think lucifer knows at the end he will lose. He did it for a moments gain, evil is all about doing things for a moments gain. Good always wins in the end. Such as a druggy knows he can't do drugs forever.
2007-02-16 18:26:08 · update #1
What you are suggesting misunderstands the attributes of God in that God cannot be illogical. God demands justice for sin, since God is perfect: perfectly loving, perfectly righteous. God gave us Free Will. We can choose, freely, and God will respect our choice.
Heaven and Hell were made out of God's love towards mankind. God gives you Free Will, his revelation in nature, your mind, and in the Bible. You have been given all the facts that you need and if you choose wrongly you get what you chose. You chose to seek after your own needs and desires, to reject a communion with your Maker, so He respectfully gives you what you have freely chosen.
C.S. Lewis:
"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.'"
1. Wouldn't everyone repent when faced with hell?
2. Would God let out people who repented?
One argument against hell is this: No person in his right mind would choose eternal punishment in hell over heaven. Therefore everyone would repent when sent to hell. If God lets the repentant leave, hell will be empty (and therefore can be disregarded). If God doesn't let the repentant leave, God is unjust for continuing to punish them after they've repented.
The trouble with this line of reasoning is that repentance is not simply a matter of one saying, "Okay, I'll say whatever you want me to, just get me out of here!" Repentance involves acknowledging one's guilt, feeling remorse and the desire to change one's behavior, accepting Christ's sacrifice as substitutionary punishment for one's wrongs and agreeing to love and obey God (including Christ as God the Son). This includes by definition acceptance of eternal punishment in hell as just punishment for one's sins; while the skeptic may still object that continued punishment of the repentant is unjust, the repentant will respond that their continued punishment is deserved and could only end through God's mercy.
However, in reality people in hell won't repent, in particular not any skeptic who makes the above argument. If one thinks God is unjust for punishing people in hell, actually going there isn't going to make one suddenly decide that God is just and deserves one's love and worship after all. People are given their entire lives on Earth as an opportunity to repent and accept God; if they refuse each day of their lives to repent and believe they're justified in doing so, it's hardly conceivable that punishment in hell would change their minds.
Since hell is comprised of those who would never repent, the second question is only a hypothetical one; it could be argued either way. In practice, someone who would repent in hell would be given the opportunity to repent on Earth and would presumably repent before they died, not after.
As for etermal punishment for finite life of sin:
The answer is this – our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is ultimately against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he stated, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight…” (Psalm 51:4). David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah, how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin is worthy of an eternal punishment.
An earthly example of this would be comparing attacking your neighbor and attacking the President of the United States. Yes, both are crimes, but attacking the President would result in far greater consequences. How much more does sin against a holy and infinite God warrant a terrible consequence?
2007-02-16 18:53:48 · answer #1 · answered by Ask Mr. Religion 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
1) God intends for the human race to flurish and bring us the best
Than why did he send the flood?
What i think it should say is
1) God intends good for his elect people
We find this in Romans, and i believe other places.
Nowhere, to my limited knowlege, have I come across a verse in the Bible saying God wishes the best for the human race and intends for it to flurish and be at its best.
the second point is in accord wiht the Bible, and should remain the same.
I think the third point would also change accordingly if the first were changed. This would cause the conclusion to fall into place, and show that hell really could be a place of ETERNAL damnation, and thus make the Bible consistent...
We can be happy in heaven because we can see that God is completly just and righteous in punishing sin. It is not excessive punishment, because our sin is against an infinite God. We are finite. Somthing finite can never fill an infinite gap. Therefore the punishment is eternal.
My answer must be No. In Hell there can be no redemption.
This answer does not address how some can be saved. I believe this has been answered many many times, and I dont need to answer it again.
2007-02-16 18:35:22 · answer #2 · answered by Proverbs 1:7 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
"It has been said God is soverign overall: I have 3 points to make: 1) God intends for the human race to flourish and bring us the best"
Oh? Where in the Bible does it say that?
" 2) God is soverign overall"
I agree.
"3) If God intends the best for us, and God is soverign overall, then at the end of the day when the curtain falls God will win. How can God truly have won if there are people in hell?"
...Why shouldn't He win? He's God. He can do what He wants.
"Don't you agree at the end of it all God will have what he wants, and I'm sure what he wants is to be soverign overall. For him to be SOVERIGN OVER (not some) but ALL, people can't remain in hell at the end."
Why not? Just because there are people in Hell doesn't mean He's not sovereign. Just because they go to Hell, does this mean He's not sovereign?
"Also how can we be happy in heaven if our loved ones are in hell, and if we lose our memories in heaven then why is christianity all about relationships and loving the ones on earth?"
I don't know how we'll be happy. I know that God does mourn those who go to hell, why shouldn't we?
" It would be cruel to kill our relationships with our loved ones. God made us for relationships."
Yes. Relationship with Him. You forget. Everything He does is for His own glory.
"Is there redemption in hell? What about someone who was born before Christ? Would they go to heaven or hell?
It depends.
"If God was a just God, lets say Hitler killed 100,000 people and for every person he killed he must suffer 10,000 years in hell. That is a lot of years but on the line of eternality it is just a speck and a dot. How can a Just God give eternal punishment for finite sin?"
The sin is not finite, it is infinite, since it is committed against an infinite God.
If you walked up to some random person in a bar and slapped him, then apologized, you might get in a fight or an argument, but that'd be all.
If you walked up to the president of the U.S. and slapped him, you'd probably have several bones broken by security and probably spend a good long time in jail.
Same offense, different punishment.
Why? What matters is WHO it's against.
"Another point is, I am merely a man, can i resist God forever? I mean can i resist God for eternality?"
Yes.
"What if we changed in hell or became Good and we paid the price for our sins."
All will have a change of heart once they die. But that doesn't mean they still deserve hell. God made that clear.
"Will we still be in hell even if we accepted god?"
Yes. We had our chance. We blew it.
"God is sovereign overall. I believe when everything is over, God will beat lucifer and for God to truly be soverign over him."
Yep.
"He must save all in hell or else he is never truly soverign overall."
Not necessarily. Where did you get this reasoning?
"I think lucifer knows at the end he will lose. He did it for a moments gain, evil is all about doing things for a moments gain."
I tend to agree here.
Anyway, good questions, think out the answers a bit more thoroughly.
Everything God does is to glorify Himself, whether we like it or not.
2007-02-16 18:34:27 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
my dear, God is Sovereign. But in His Sovereignty is justice and Law. Once we leave this life there is no changing our eternal destination. We must decide now there is no deciding later. How can God allow people to stay in hell? Because He gave them free will and an eternal choice to make with that free will. That is why it is called an ETERNAL choice - it can't be changed once there. The Old Testament puts it like this - as the tree falls, so shall it lie. God has to wipe the memory of them away from those in heaven, or else there would be nothing but sorrow and heaven is not a place of sorrow. It is His mercy to us to remove the pain of their absence from our knowledge. Our relationships in heaven are based with Him and those fellow Christians who are there. There is no other relationship in the eternities to come. That is why it is SO important that we make sure that our family circle is not broken in the next life by everyone getting right in this life. God's Sovereignty and His Love will not overturn His justice. If people reject His sacrifice and payment for Sin here they have chosen an ETERNITY without Him there. There is no redemption from hell.
2007-02-24 14:32:33 · answer #4 · answered by wd 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Reading your question i can see why you are confused. But there is and can be Redemption in Hell.
God in the form of the Creator made the souls of all that was and will be before the Creation of the Physical Universe.And will call All of these souls back to its self at the end of time.
As for the Christian version. Starts the same but the Creator made(appointed) some souls such as the one we call SATAN to be the tempter of the souls away from the Creators commandments but is still subject to the will of the Creator.The idea of Hell has been pulled together from different religious ideas in different areas of the middle east mostly.
As for those there before Jesus they will be freed by the laws of their own religions.
Jesus was sent down to be the promised Savior of the Jewish people through their prayers. Resisted SATAN in the time Jesus spent in the desert alone. After the jealous fearful Rabbis had the Romans kill him . He went down into Hell for a final battle with SATAN for the Keys to the Gates of Hell and won.
The book of Revelations does not say the world will be destroyed but transformed.
2007-02-16 19:01:05 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Hell is a choice
If, after being presented with a clear presentation of the gospel you hard heartedly reject it all the days of your life.
You will spend eternity in hell. The worst thing about hell is not the fires thereof but like Dante said "abandon hope all ye who enter here."
It is too simple to avoid.
The memories of those who are consigned to hell will be forgotten. Their memory will have no place in the Kingdom of Heaven. Sad but true. Best to avoid it all
Just believe Christ is God in the flesh and is your savior.
2007-02-16 18:27:13 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
The Bible says "It is appointed unto men once to die, and after this comes judgment." (Hebrews 9:27)
One of the foundational teachings of the New Testament is eternal judgment - that is, a judgment with eternal consequences. (See Hebrews 6:1,2)
Just as certainly as God has promised the heirs of salvation that if they endure faithful unto death, they will inherit eternal life, just as surely God promises eternal punishment on those who have lived a wicked life and remain unrepentant and unbelieving up to the moment of their death.
I for one am glad that the wicked will be punished. When you see the incredible evil that men do to others and how they show a total arrogant disregard for the suffering of others, do you mean to tell me these deserve a nice pat on the back and a "there, there, never mind, just because you blew up by 4 year old daughter with a suicide belt, that doesn't mean that you don't deserve to go to heaven."?
Do you think men like Adolph Hitler and Stalin and Saddam Hussein and others of their ilk were served justice by death after they had inflicted sufferings on millions? How could anything short of eternal damnation serve justice in the case of such as these? And rest assured, these did what they did because they were in a position to do it. Millions upon millions would do the same to their fellow human beings, if only they were afforded the opportunity. God has concluded all under sin. He therefore offers mercy to all. But if you spurn His mercy He will be glorified in Justice. Because God is just, He cannot punish beyond what is deserved. Therefore eternal damnation is the just judgment of God.
2007-02-16 18:43:51 · answer #7 · answered by wefmeister 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
God wants you to choose him .... there is an awesome book called " The Stranger on the road to Emmaus " by John R Cross. It explains so simply all the key points of the bible and at the very least you would find it interesting.It's not at all pushy or preachy and I found it difficult to put down after i started reading it. It is an incredible eye opener. In answer to your question .... the time to choose him is now . Hell is as eternal as Heaven .... once you are there that's it.
2007-02-16 18:37:18 · answer #8 · answered by uncle louie 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Of course God wants us all to go to heaven but he is a good God, he dosent force us to do things or make certain decisons. The reason Jesus came was so that we didnt have to go to Hell so we had a choice we could make, he is not going to make someone belive in him, so really the choice is ours Heaven or Hell, I dont think there is being saved in Hell because you already made a choice in a way and I dont think anyone would be in Hell because they would all repent if that was the case. When you are in heavan you wont have depression or anger ect, sure you will wish that your loved one would have repent but it was that persons choice.....I hope some of this helped!
2007-02-16 18:30:55 · answer #9 · answered by SQ 2 · 1⤊ 0⤋
I struggled with all of these same questions- it all just didn't make sense. After many years of searching for the answers, I have come to the conclusion that there is no devil, and no hell. People made these up so as to not have to take responsibility for their own actions. Why would God create us all, and love us all, yet not be smart enough to make sure we ALL return to Him? We all go to heaven, because there is no place else to go. Peace to you.
2007-02-24 14:40:48 · answer #10 · answered by Susan H 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
You asked a very good question. But you have to understand God is all sufficient all by Himself. He is not in need of anyone. If He has many worshippers or a few it does not affect Him. As for your questions about our loved ones being in hell. When people go to heaven, they will have the same mind as Christ. They will not feel the torment or sting of their loved one being in hell. I am sorry. There is no redemption for anyone in hell. The Lord gives people plenty of opportunities to avoid going there. But if the shedding of His Son's Blood for our sins is treated with contempt. If someone treats that precious blood with contempt then their condemnation is on their own head.
2007-02-16 18:53:25 · answer #11 · answered by super saiyan 3 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋