True or false?Agree or disagree?

Question

Can you explain an ant hill without ants?Can you explain a birdnest without the bird(s)?Can you explain a spider-web without the spider?Can you explain the universe without God?Without the creator,nothing is really fact,just guess&speculation,but no real facts.

Please explain why you agree or disagree?

Answer 1

Agree. Excellent analogy. Without an understanding of the creators, one can describe the physical aspects of those things, but as to their purpose, one can only guess.

Answer 2

Some of those things that can be explained scientifically. An ant w/o an ant hill, means that the ant moved away. A bird abandoned the birdnest. A spider would probably eating. I cannot explain the universe of without God because he created the whole entire thing

Answer 3

Your question is related to the cosmological argument for a First Cause of everything:

One needs to have a formalized understanding of logic, something missing in most of what is written in this forum on the topic of God's existence. Here is a starting point:

Premise: Every event has a cause

Premise: The universe has a beginning

Premise: All beginnings involve an event

Inference: This implies that the beginning of the universe involved an event

Inference: Therefore the beginning of the universe had a cause

Conclusion: The universe had a cause

For something to have caused the universe it must have existed outside of the universe and time. That First Cause could only have been an omnipotent supernatural agent, God.

Another argument is one from design:

1. The universe began to exist

2. The universe has complexity, order and fine-tuning

3. Complexity, order and fine-tuning imply design

4. Design that began to exist implies a designer

5. Therefore, the universe has a designer

Premise 1: See Big Bang theorem (Hawking, Penrose) All matter and time itself began at this moment

Premise 2: Universe has complex designs, e.g, cellular DNA, Laws of Physics, fine-tuning for life on earth, etc.

Premise 3: Nothing ordered can come from chaos, an orderer is required. Laws of Nature are often cited, including Vuletic, as counterexamples, yet these very Laws are themselves ordered.

Premise 4: Self evident. If something did not exist, there is no beginner or designer

Thus, the universe has a designer.

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Answer 4

Hi Maurice,

Natural structures are often far more profound than made ones. I love my house, but it does not compare to the grandeur of a nearby network of caves that have been commercially exploited, but are still very beautiful (Howe Caverns).

I don't disagree with your basic premise by the way -- in fact, I personally agree with it, though that is by faith, and I fully acknowledge, I may be wrong - but its my choice to be wrong. What I DO NOT agree with is your attempt to convert others to agree with it, based on your own perceived need for them to agree with you (yes, yes, it leads to eternal life according to your faith tradition, etc. Sit down sometime for a few hours, and empty your mind -- and ask yourself just how much of your need to convert others is based in a need for self-affirmation. In my experience, if you are honest, you will find that to be a very large percentage.)

Going beyond that for a moment. The fact that I cannot comprehend something, does NOT mean that it cannot exist or even that it cannot be comprehended. Likewise there is NOTHING, even in your argument that says "God" in a Judeo-Islamo-Christian sense. There is something in your argument that says "supreme or superior beings or being." Even if your argument were tight (which despite the fact that I agree with it, it is not, in fact it is laughable really -- starting with the fact that the comparison is apples to oranges), even in fact if it were undeniable, which it is not, it would in no way support the idea of a single god -- or of any of the associated Monotheistic mythology in the West. I'm sorry -- I'm not sure you will be able to see this, because I am suspect that you know what you think and don't want to see beyond it -- but truly, it doesn't show any God you would recognize, even at its best. It might indicate a sort of quasi-deism.

In any event, nice question, well phrased. I appreciate it being there. You seem like a nice person. Please think about it some more. You don't need others to agree in order to find comfort in your faith, and if you do, ask yourself how strong your faith is.

Cheers,

Reynolds
[e-mail]

Answer 5

Disagree. The existance of the universe does not depend upon the existance of a deity. It is simply the way things are, what formed because of the nature of everything down to the properties of atoms and quarks.

While you're at it, you might try to explain the description and nature of this deity, because what if it was Zeus and not Jehovah who was your invisible creator?

Answer 6

Disagree - as I do with most of your postings.

Seems, according to your theory, that anything that is real requires a creator. So, lets run with this logic for a second....

Seeing as anything complex requires a creator in your mind, then please explain to me who is responsible for the creation of God. Because, as the Creator of the cosmos, God must also be highly complex - and thus, according to your logic, must require a creator. So, who created God?

"No one did, he was always been present." is your response, is it not? Well, guess what - thats my response for how the universe got here - it wasnt created, it has always existed - just like your God. Prove me wrong.

Answer 7

I disagree.

We recognize an anthill as an anthill because we've seen ants. Same is true for a spiderweb and a bird's nest.

But just looking at a bird's nest doesn't tell me what sort of bird made it, or even if some other kind of animal made it.

Answer 8

The logical end of your sequence of analogies is "Can you imagine a universe without finite actualities whose existence structures that universe?" And no, I can't.

Chaos and complexity theory demonstrate very plainly how structure arises from feedback loops in complex systems. Order happens in the universe; it is something the universe "does," an intrinsic property. No supernatural agent is needed.

Answer 9

Disagree. The existence of a universe is not evidence of a creator.

Answer 10

With creation there has to be a creator. Let's pray that the scales will fall off the eyes of the people. Satan is trying to keep them blinded by his tactics, so they will never come to know Christ's grace and mercy, and washed in His blood.