What's a "real" pagan?

Question

I worship pre-Christian gods. Yet throughout the years, I've been told by other pagans that "real" pagans MUST believe in a 3-fold law, karma, they MUST believe that psychic attacks are common and practice magic, they have to be politically liberal and dress up on Halloween, and that they MUST belong to a coven or local pagan group or read the "right" books.

Why do I have to believe in these specific things to be a "real" pagan? Do you feel that a person isn't a "real" pagan if they don't do some of these things? Is there anything that you feel a pagan MUST do or believe in for you to consider them a "real" pagan? Why? For example, if a person doesn't believe in karma, why do people say they aren't "real" pagans? If someone doesn't celebrate Halloween, why are they not "real" in their worship of their gods? I'm asking about the umbrella term "pagan" and not any specific pagan path.

Answer 1

The 3-fold law is a Wiccan invention. It has no relation to any other Pagan religion.

Karma is an Eastern concept. It was not part of any of the old Western religions. It is not found in ancient Celtic, Germanic, Greek or Roman spirituality or any aboriginal spirituality that I am aware of. There are various retribution beliefs, but that's not the same as Karma.

Psychic attacks well, I guess they can happen... I dunno. I don't think it matters if you believe in them. You don't have to actively do magic to be Pagan and if you don't then why would you be concerned?

I personally believe everyone does magic whether consciously or not, so I'll skip the next one.

Most Heathens I know are politically conservative. Though most Wiccans I know are liberal. As for the rest of the Pagans I know, it's a mixed bag. Most of us are swing votes.

Dressing up on Halloween isn't a Pagan tradition. Halloween isn't a Pagan holiday. Samhain is. Samhain is for honoring your dead, not dressing up.

The idea of a Coven as it is currently defined (as an initiatory entity rather than something more along the lines of a sewing circle) is a new age concept based not on Pagan religion but on initiatory occult traditions like Golden Dawn and OTO and the Masons. Wicca borrowed that idea, but it's the only Pagan religion I know of that has bothered to do so. Most Pagans are solitary. Many of us gather together for special occasions, but we don't have an official "group".

You don't have to read any books. True wisdom comes from accessing the Sophia through ecstatic gnosis, not books. Read whatever you want (but please not that Ravenwolf lady, she's a whackjob) or don't. What you cannot find within you will never find without.

You don't have to do any of those things. No, I don't think someone isn't a real Pagan if they don't do some of those things. I think a real Pagan should honor the Earth. I don't care how they do it. Wasteful Pagans driving SUVs make me spit. I also think real Pagans should be concerned with the health of their bodies. Pagans who take pride in their addictions disgust me. But those are my personal biases.

I am personally sick of people telling me I'm not a real Pagan because I don't drink alcohol (or do drugs) and I refuse to bash on Christians. My mother's a Christian. What's your problem?

Answer 2

You don't have to believe in the three fold law, I don't. I don't belong to a coven and I plan to keep it that way. I don't need the drama or the ridiculous "you must be this to be pagan" laws. The people who say those things are just close minded and hypocritical. Being pagan is about freedom to worship the gods you want, how you want, when you want and with who you want. I am a Green Witch. I hardly worship gods/goddesses. I worship the earth and her creations. I hardly celebrate our sabbats simply because I don't have the time. I am just as pagan as the next and I don't follow any of those things. Pagan, in all reality, mean Country Dweller really ^_^. But remember, just because you believe something different than another pagan, doesn't make you any less pagan.

Answer 3

The 3-fold law, karma, etc.. are generally beliefs that eclectic Wiccans hold. Keep in mind Wicca is only one of many Pagan religions out there. You've probably had a run in with what are known as fuff bunnies and they probably are not even very knowledgeable about their own professed path, let alone any of the other Pagan religions. Don't let them get to you.

I'm an Asatruar, I worship the pre-Christian Gods and Goddesses of Northern Europe, I do not believe in the 3-fold law, karma, I don't generally practice magic, I don't dress of for Halloween or even celebrate it in the sense Celtic Pagans do...(for me Yule is the main event, not Samhain), and I most certainly do not belong to a coven...if someone had the audacity to tell me (particularly in person) that I wasn't a "real" Pagan...they'd be very sorry.

Answer 4

I think that what you have experienced is Pagans who do not understand what the word means.

Pagan originally comes from a Greek term meaning hill, which in Latin became a term for people who lived in the countryside. When soldiers were sent out into the country, they were from the city and everyone else were Pagans. For awhile, it became used as a general term for civilian. The conversion to Christianity happened first among the imperial ranks, then among the troops. At one point, troops were effectively required to convert. One was typically either a Roman soldier & Christian or a civilian and non-Christian. Thus, Pagan became a term for anyone who was not Christian. Eventually, Pagan became used as an insult used by the Christians. As Jewish people living among Christians gained status throughout history, they tended to push the similarity between the religions and sought to lose the use of the term Pagan to describe them. Eventually, the other two of the big three Abrahamic religions became non-Pagan too.

Today, Pagan is a broad, general term, which is currently used to describe any non-Abrahamic religion. Some people choose to also exclude Buddhism and Hinduism from the definition of Pagan, and go by a definition of Pagan being one who is a member of a religion other than one of the big 5 world religions. This is somewhat problematic, as if the number of adherants changes, Judaism could suddenly become Pagan and some other religion become non-Pagan. It's also problematic in that Hindu is a broad spectrum category too in reality, as the British used it as a term for non-Muslim Indians.

The people that you have met may be thinking that all Pagans are a certain way, because they have only met one type of Pagan. I have seen this happen. I frequently see Pagan groups that have only Wiccan members.

As for karma, that's Hindu, so arguably non-Pagan. Hehe.

Personally, I think some of it is that Pagans in this country seek community. We are a minority, so we seek others like us. Some people simply insist that others be exactly them. I think that we should focus on our similarities, rather than attempting to eliminate our differences.

Answer 5

Pagan in it original meaning was actually meant as an insult. It was a word that described the people that lived in rural areas and where thought to be back ward or unsophisticated. A pagan was uncultured and did not follow the ways of the enlightened city dwellers (Romans).

In modern times, however, it has come to be a general term placed on those that do not follow the Judeo-Christian belief system. Unfortunately other terms such as Wicca has in resent years also become a catch word for the same thing. The truth is that Wicca is a very specific religious practice that has had its name shanghaied by the uneducated who want to devoid it of its true nature, but that’s another topic. Wiccans are pagan but not all pagans are Wiccan. Like wise just because you believe in and think you practice magic (there are those that equate magic to prayer with props they have never preformed true magic) does not mean you are a pagan. There are those that believe in Christianity, and Judaism that practice magic. I personally prefer to not use the term pagan; I prefer to refer to myself as a polytheist this means that I believe in and worship more than one god and/or goddess. As yet the pop culture of want to be witches and pagans have not shanghaied this term, and tried to make it something that it is not.

Stay true to your beliefs and listen to the voice within; not to the pop culture that destroys and or distorts all that it touches with fluff, ignorance, and arrogance.

Slán
MacMorrigan

Answer 6

well, "karma" is a Hindu tenant, not a pagan one, pagans have borrowed the concept. The 3-fold law pertains to Wicca, which falls under the Pagan category but is not exclusive. But, people are always gonna tell you you are wrong....that's how you know who to stay away from :) I get the same thing because I call myself a Witch, but I'm NOT Wiccan. The Wiccans go ballistic over that and the Xtians tell me there's no difference.
As for the magic, psychics,liberals,books, dressing up, etc. that's personal choices and NOBODY'S business.
As long as you are living the path you choose and are comfortable with, you are being 'real' and true to yourself and that is the most important thing about being a religious person. If you cant be true to yourself, you cant be true to you Gods.

Answer 7

Geez, this is such a pattern with people in general.. you get that in christianity too.. "someone isn't a real christian because "
You worship pre-christian gods.. definitely a pagan thing to do.
The Greeks didn't believe in 3-fold karma, psychic attacks, or dress up on halloweeen or belong to a coven, and yet they were pagan.. so were the Romans, Celts, Egyptians, et al.

You are what you believe you are.. who cares what anyone else thinks.. since when did Paganism have a monocentric theme or leader?

Answer 8

Meh, don't worry about it. There's no such thing. Those people are as bad as the ones that talk about "real Christians".

I get told the same thing all the time. That I'm not a real Wiccan because I don't do things the way Gardner thought was right. But Gardner was just a man, nothing more. And part of the beauty of Wicca is that theres very little that you are bound to.

A Pagan is a Pagan is a Pagan.

Answer 9

You don't have to believe in anything that anyone tells you to. Pagan is a general term used to describe any path other than those of the Paths of Abraham, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. There are plenty of Pagan Traditions including the Neo Hellenistic Pagans, the Wiccans, and the shamanic paths. Many have very different traditions that are not always compatible, and as diverse as any religion could be.

Answer 10

Pagans who make claims like that definately get under my skin. They're making a whole wealth of assumptions, considering the fact that those things don't even count as requirements for a specific religion, let alone all of Paganism. (One tradition or group, perhaps, but all of us? No way.)

People who make those assumptions either haven't encountered Pagans outside their little restrictive dreamworld, or have, yet simply dislike it. Fact of the matter is that the Pagan community is too large and too diverse for things like you listed to be requirements - and those folks *should* know that.

The only thing someone needs to do to be a Pagan is to be a member of a Pagan religion. It's that simple. Each individual religion might have certain requirements, but even those can sometimes be a bit flexible. (I've had Trad Wiccans tell me the 3-fold law, for example, is more of a guideline than a hard-and-fast rule.)