What's with all this "it's fake" crap?

Question

Why is it that whenever people come across a discipline that they can not understand they emphatically say: "IT'S A FAKE" instead of merely saying: "I don't know"?

Once you close your mind by making a prejudicial judgement call like that, you can't LEARN anything!

re: San Soo's post - I am not thinking about new systems, rather some of the older internal martial arts systems.

re: Bluto - What is "magic"? One definition is that magic is the end result of a science that I know nothing about. 100 years ago wouldn't the following be considered magic?
Thinking machines (your computer)
Your friend in a box that you hold in your hand (your cell phone)

Answer 1

I dont know

All I know is, It's Intelligence and Arrogance that make people Ignortant

Answer 2

Many people in the martial arts still have the "my style is the best and all else is ineffective" attitude. It's a tragedy. They are missing out on a lot of information that might be useful to compliment the art they are studying.

If you quit learning new things, you might as well bury your head in the sand. That is a sentence that I think of for my martial arts and my business. With that in mind, I think my martial arts training is very well rounded and my business is doing very well.

Many people don't like change. They are comfortable in a rut and prefer to stay there. The tunnel vision and the blinders are obvious in their thought process. And it shows. When you try to tell them different, an argument is the result. All you can do is pick and choose your battles, keep your own mind open and explore new things or ideas when the chance arises.

Answer 3

a non proven system has a problem in that it's new disciples have no clue if they are gonna get slaughtered being the guiena pig for someones concepts on self defense.
There are many hybred systems now, and they are all proven effective. I have no problem with any proven system new or old. But in my belief before you teach it to anyone as a fact , it should be a fact.
Many people believe now that martial disciplines are just who can tear up who. There is alot that goes on in training that is beyond tearing up a person, it is self discovery of hidden talents and abilities.
It is a shame when these other skills have lost their value becaue the teacher was never led into these other concepts simply from never having a quality teacher to show them.
Martial disciplines have so many new wanting to prove or show how great their way is. Yet when you look at their way you see small pieces of systems gathered in a clump by the unexperienced and being taught as a new style.
Now if you really care about your profession and it was say Dry Cleaning. This new shop opens by yours and uses a pugnent smelly stuff, and makes clothes smell. Before long no customers want this as it smells.
Now this leads to a belief that dry cleaning smells in alot of people after a while.
Soon good dry cleaner has a smaller business as less customers come because they presume his smells too.
Should good dry cleaner learn from this?
Should good dry cleaner expose bad one?
Does this help or hurt customers?
Can bad dry cleaner easily change chemicals or show his doesn't smell?
To many people think martial arts is like dry cleaning, it isn't.
One fake comes along teaching and many get hurt testing till they move along to a proven system.
Having an open mind is smart, just don't fill it with garbage .
As for learning, well what is your background?
I have a background in a few systems with quality teachers.
I am no monk, I have a voice and sometimes I write unpleasing things to some I would offend. I care little.
I learnt along time ago wisdom comes from being a sceptic in what I am willing to learn and apply myself and my life to, so as my time is productive.
The UFC exposed teachers using terrible principles in training not bad arts. No Randori, no skills.
Hehehe I started my training in 1967, and still train- You?

Answer 4

It may be a lack of understanding. But I think with most people saying "It's fake crap" is the short version of saying it is not a real dicipline. Take topics like Bruce Lee or Dim Mak.
Some people honestly beleive Bruce was an awesome martial artist and a great fighter. They base this on movies and what they read writen by other fans etc... The truth is he has never fought in public and other than a few displays of 2 finger push ups and his 3 inch punch, he has never had to fight. So the short answer to a Bruce Lee questin could be no he is crap. Or it could be ya he's the greatest.
Same with Dim Mak. Some people beleive it to be exactly what the stories say it is. Waht we see in movies etc... But others who research it learn that it doesn't mean death touch it mean artery push and is actually something taken from actupuncture and tai chi, used in excercise and theropy for nerve or muscle damage. People realized it could be effective in imobalizing someone. By applying pressure to certain areas of the body. One yes it is posible to hurt a person this way, 2 it is not a realistic way of fighting someone.
Others think it is all BS.
So the short answer is It's fake crap. Or Ya it can kill you with one blow...

Answer 5

because those "systems" (actually it isn't the systems it is a BAD teacher making those representations usually) have a lot of claims that can't be proven or quantified and the reasons why are evasive.

Example:

Scenario: 1
chi gong teacher: "I can shoot chi balls and use my chi to knock you out without actually touching you".

This teacher will typically only demonstrate on thier OWN students or "disciples" who are more than willing to fall down and pretend to be koed.

In the alternative, in the case where it doesn't work on a skeptic (on the off chance they do it on one- and even allow videotape of it) they will have a ready-made excuse as to why it doesn't work.

Scenario 2:
The francisco scaramanga death-punch! "I can kill you with one hit- one hit on the body is all I need, however, I can't practice this in sparring because it is too deadly, but it is the basis of my style and my skill" "i have never used my "golden finger" technique on an opponent"

Typically they will refuse challenges with responses like:

"it is too deadly"
"this is 1000 years old and was used by the ancient mongolians to defeat the dreaded mecha-striesand"

put up or shut up- fact is the fact that you can't train a particular technique to the max doesn't mean that you can't train the rest of the style. I doubt there are very many bjj guys who have trained an armbar to the point of breaking, or a triangle choke to the point of killing your opponent- however, you know that they can because you can feel it.

Any system that makes a claim needs to back it up- otherwise it is based on faith, not fact and not practice and not demonstration. Martial arts are supposed to work- not be written down in a book by an unknown and unverified author for later generations to erect places of worship to. religion is not martial- it is actually (according to what is preached) quite the opposite intentionally.

You can't learn anything if the art or person can't be demonstrated- even if it isn't to the "breaking point" I know a move will break my arm because I can feel the pressure- I know that if I don't resist or someone does it with full force my neck will snap- and you can train those movements and still demonstrate them with safety to a point before breaking point. However most of these "chi masters" can't even demonstrate them outside of sparring or to a point in sparring where you can safely have a judge/instructor say "stop" just for the point of testing out the move. Even still they become cagey when asked to put it to the test.

Martial arts are martial, not magic. If you want magic go to david copperfield I'm sure he does it much better than some obscure "chi gong" practitioner anyway.

Answer 6

To what particular example are you referring? Someone being able to touch someone and send them flying across a room? Or someone being able to do so with a "Jedi mind trick"? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

I can appreciate your concern for people passing judgement on a method without having experienced it first hand. That is a close-minded approach and, no, no one can learn with a closed mind. This is true.

However, at the other end of the spectrum, asking people to accept with blind devotion a method that cannot be proven to some degree (and I'm not talking about "parlor tricks" like displays of some master of his Chi waving his hand and projecting his co-conspirator/partner 50 ft.) is not being honest as practitioners.

We have to be both open-minded to our study, but with a critical mind as well.

Answer 7

it not that things are fake, it is just that many are less than effective than others.
I wouldnt chose an art that only taught kicks and punches, when the next one has that AND elbows/knees or joint manipulation. but I wouldnt chose just jiont manipulation if it didnt have punches/kicks etc.

too many are limiting themselves for the sake of tradition.

if you havent tested your own art out in the street (away from the rules and safegurds of the dojo) then you dont know sh!t about your art being good or not.

tournament are not real fights.
katas do not equal fight ability.
you train for the dojo, but do you train for what is outside?

outside your dojo is the ONLY place you can know for certain if you are any good.

so dont be worried about what we say, just be certain that until you get tested for real, you are deluding yourself.

soldiers that have never been to war cannot say they are awesome soldiers and killing machines.
you get my point? so the only the people are fake, but the arts have the potential for less than optimised representation in the real world. and as we live in the real world, what happens outside of the dojo is what really counts.

this is neither against you nor for you, but needs to be said.

Answer 8

Sadly because many in Martial Arts still have the belief that their version is the true version and everyone else's version is false or inferior. This is also used as a sales pitch by many less than ethical instructors.

Answer 9

There are many who feel the need to build themselves up by tearing others down. IMHO, these people do not deserve to be called Martial Artists.

Answer 10

i agree, as a martial-artist myself, i've been trained outside i did not take any class's. I trained myself for about 15 years, working off of instinct and reactions. People will always fear what they don't understand