OK people to all of you who do not believe in life after death, which there is?

Question

Explain to me then why so many patients during their operation die and leave their bodies and spectate and were able to describe the exact conversation doctors and nurses were having, and when they came back in their bodies they were able to tell them what the conversation thy were having, and they backed it up and told the patients they were right. Also just to let you know there have been three world wide studies on life after death and all three studies from well know scientis, Proffesors, etc (how ever you spell it)have proven that at the point of death your conciousness leaves your body. The first theory years ago when the first sudied it was lack oif oxigen to the brain, or drugs given, Halllucinaitons etc, but the recent study found that the original theory of drugs etc were proven to be false. This women(true story) died in hospital after unseccessful attempts to reccusitate her, and her spirit left her body, and she found herself on top of the hospital roof, and saw a red shoe

And when she came back into her body the doctors were very shocked and she told the doctors what she saw on the roof. They were skeptical of her story and sent an orderly to go on the roof to see. The orderly went and brought back the red shoe the patient saw when she was on the roof. Little children and older people who were christians reported of going thorugh a tunnel of bright light and then told it is not their time. Some people have reported damnation(hell) and descreibed it as worse than anybody could ever imagine and described it as intense heat where you burn. There is only two places you can go after death- Heaven(if you are in Christ) or Hell if you are not. Jesus spoke more on hell then he did on Heaven. Those people who have died who did not believe in hell and did not turn to Jesus believe in hell now.

I trust Jesus, and when Apostil Paul said absent from the body is present with the Lord he ment it. Why should I trust man(I don't) the only person I trust is Jesus and if I die assuming the rapture does not happen first I will be with the Lord in Heaven and I will not have to face skeptics again, thank goodness

Answer 1

NDE results from neurobiological mechanisms, related to such factors as anomalous temporal-lobe functioning, epilepsy, compression of the optic nerve (one possible cause of the tunnel sensation), chemical changes in the brain related to serotonin and endorphins, and general changes in brain functioning (Mauro, 1992; Britton and Bootzin, 2004).

The similarities amongst the experiences of the many documented cases of NDE are understood by skeptics to signify that the pathology of the brain during the dying and reviving process is more or less the same in all humans, as suggested by Russian specialist Dr. Vladimir Negovsky (Pravda, 2004).

One example of how the process of brain death might produce an aspect of the NDE is that those who undergo NDEs often feel as if they are traveling through a tunnel or narrow passageway. According to Jack Cowan, a neurobiologist at the University of Chicago, brain activity that is normally kept stable is debilitated in the dying patient due to the lack of oxygen that the brain experiences when it nears death, generating stripes of activity that move across the cortex (1982). Using brain mapping, Cowan is able to demonstrate how the stripes in the cortex would appear like concentric rings or spirals, creating the visualization of tunnel-like patterns.

Skeptics believe that the contention that NDEs are proof of an afterlife is not scientific (Carey, 119), because the characteristic effects of an NDE are perceptible only to the experient, and so it is impossible for researchers to observe the phenomenon directly. Thus, the belief that NDEs are the beginning of an afterlife cannot be scientifically verified.

Among the studies which support a naturalistic interpretation we find the research of Blanke et al. (2002), published in Nature Magazine [3], who found that electrical stimulation of the brain region known as the right angular gyrus repeatedly caused out-of-body experiences in the patient[4]; though the patient did not report seeing her own face, for example. Researchers have largely been unsuccessful in running proactive experiments to establish out-of-body consciousness. There have been numerous experiments in which a random message was placed in a hospital in a manner that it would be invisible to patients or staff yet visible to a floating being, but these experiments have provided no clear signs of ESP. (Blackmore, 1991) Michael Persinger who has also researched stimulation of the temporal lobes of the brain has also found evidence above chance levels for esp functioning within his experiements. [2]

One hypothesis used to explain NDEs was originally suggested by Dr. Karl Jansen (1995;1997) and deals with accounts of the side-effects of the drug Ketamine. Ketamine was used as an anesthetic on U.S. soldiers during the Vietnam War, but its use was limited as the soldiers complained about sensations of floating above their body and seeing bright lights. (Ketamine is now employed variously in the UK and Europe as an 'emergency' anaesthetic, an animal tranquilliser and a recreational drug.) Further experiments by numerous researchers verified that intravenous injections of ketamine could reproduce all of the commonly cited features of an NDE; including a sense that the experience is "real" and that one is actually dead, separation from the body, visions of loved ones, and transcendent mystical experiences. Ketamine acts in part by blocking the NMDA receptor for the neurotransmitter glutamate. Glutamate is released in abundance when brain cells die, and if it weren't blocked, the glutamate overload would cause other brain cells to die as well. In the presence of excess glutamate, the brain releases its own NMDA receptor blocker to defend itself; and it is these blockers Dr. Jansen (amongst others) hypothesize as the cause of many NDEs.

Critics of Jansen's hypothesis point out that although some aspects of the experience may be similar, not all NDEs exactly fit the ketamine experience; and that while it might be possible to chemically simulate the experience, this does not refute the possibility that spontaneous NDEs have a spiritual component. As Dr. Jansen himself notes:

Claims that NDE's must have a single explanation (e.g. Ring, 1980), or that a scientific theory must explain all of the experiences ever given the name of NDE (e.g. Gabbard and Twemlow, 1989) are difficult to justify (Jansen, 1995).

Indeed Dr. Jansen's own shifting perspective on the conclusions to be drawn from the ketamine-NDE analogy has been notable. He started out as an unequivocal debunker of the notion that NDE's are evidence of a spiritual (or at least transnormal) realm. But with time he has developed a more agnostic hypothesis: that ketamine may in fact be one particularly powerful trigger of authentic spiritual experiences - of which near-death may be another. In each case, according to Jansen's more recent pronouncements, all we can say is that the subject gets catapulted out of ordinary 'egoic' consciousness into an altered state - we cannot comfortably rule out the possibility that the 'worlds' disclosed in these 'trips' have ontological status. Latterly, therefore, Jansen's position appears closer to thinkers like Daniel Pinchbeck (2002), who has written a book on hallucinogenic shamanism, and other names like Carl Jung, Ken Wilber and Stanislav Grof, than to thinkers like Susan Blackmore or Nicholas Humphrey, who represent a skeptical position.

Related to the findings of Jansen we find the work of Strassman (2001) who induced near death experiences (in addition to some different naturally-occurring altered states of being) in a clinical setting by injecting subjects with DMT, a powerful psychedelic tryptamine. Because DMT is a chemical that is produced endogenously in the human pineal gland it might be relevant to the study of NDE's and other mystical, religious, and transpersonal experiences. Related to the findings of Jansen we also find the theory of Shawn Thomas (2004), director of Neurotransmitter.net, who has suggested that the neurotransmitter agmatine is the key substance involved in near-death experiences [5].

It is generally accepted that some people who reported NDEs were shown to have approached the clinical boundary between life and death. However, in support of a naturalistic interpretation of NDE's one infrequently argues that it is shown that the experiences themselves took place in any time other than just before the clinical death, or in the process of being revived. In altered states of consciousness such as this and during dream states or under the influence of drugs, the subjective perception of time is often dilated. It should also be noted that Susan Blackmore's "Dying Brain Hypothesis" has been soundly refuted by recent studies conducted in the Netherlands on the physiological mechanisms of a so-called dying brain.

Answer 2

Wow................can't add too much to what eldad9 has posted.

Incredibly for this forum, he has also posted references if anyone wants to check his facts (I haven't), which is as impressive as it is rare. Unlike the questioner, who posts no reference links for his "well known scientis, Proffesors" (sic).

It seems to me that the brain is capable of so much more than we are aware of in our conscious state. The "visions" and out-of-body experiences that people have experienced surely do not require a belief in the afterlife, nor do they prove an afterlife.

These people were not actually dead. Breathing and pulse may have ceased but the brain was clearly still functioning or else there would have been no recollection of the images when the person "became alive" again.

I believe in "Ockham's Razor".......ie the simplest solution is the most likely. To me the simplest solution is the brain creating an illusion or hallucination, call it what you will. This does not require the creation of an entire afterlife belief system to explain it.

It is clear that the questioner has an already biased view on this from the question "...all of you who do not not believe in life after death, which there is?".

Why bother posting a question when you are already convinced of the answer ?

Answer 3

Please, near-death experiences have been properly researched by now. You kooks need to upgrade your choice of literature.

When the body dies, the brain goes into oxygen starvation mode. No new blood means no new oxygen.

At that point it will start hallucinating wildly. While the reason or mechanism behind this is a bit unclear it is not a bad way to go. At least your final moments will be trippy.

You should ask any pilot who has done high-G training. Typically at very high Gs the blood can't reach the brain anymore and the pilots pass out. When they come to they describe the classic NDE experiences: tunnels of light, floating behind your body et al.

But none of this will convince you, you want to cling to the belief that your pathetic human life is something greater, something eternal. Well, at least you won't know that it is not there.

Answer 4

If what you say is true then you are saying God is a liar. Eccl. 9:5 says the dead know nothing!!!!!! So which is it Leanne. Are you telling the truth or is God? Notice that Satan himself keeps transforming himself into a Angel of light. He will do ANYTHING to make people stray from the truth. Now these people that have had these experiences believe in life after death and that is NOT what the bible teaches about the condition of the dead. Plus they are spreading lies about life after death, instead of taking God's words into consideration, so think about it, Satan is winning with you guys. No matter how real your experience is, it is God's words that you need to listen to.

Answer 5

Yes you are absolutely correct. Life after death is the feature that can be seen in all religions and it is the thing that is accepted by most of the people.
MAny alternative cures such as Reiki, Pranic healing and meditation are based on the existance of the spirit.
The quest of science will end when it will succeed in knowing, finding and proving this eternal truth.

Answer 6

This may be proved to be true....by science, not by religion. An afterlife may be possible, but that has nothing to do with any god or gods. It may be just a part of nature. Until it is proven though, I would not call it a fact or real, just a possibility. When it is generally accepted by science, then there is something to it.

Answer 7

They obviously werent completely brain dead if they could still hear whats going on was they !! and as for the red shoe sh*te, dont beleive everything you read. Youll be sayin there is a God next !!

Answer 8

1

Answer 9

If you know so much why don't you investigate this and publish a proper scientific journal?

Edit: Why arent you ranting about your kids or something?

Answer 10

Owned by the guy above me