John chapter 17 and the trinity?

Question

A wonderful and revealing prayer. This oneness of the Father and the Son.. Christ asks that we also may be one with the Father. See verses 11 and 21-23. So then is this oneness simply the reconciliation? We will never be gods. We are God's own, children of the Most High.

But what of the trinity as so many men define it? Is the definition a construct of man set up to divide? A false litmus test to eject all who would question man's doctrine? Is the Holy Spirit a third person or simply that aspect of Father's Mind toward us able to abide within us through faith in Christ? The veil is rent and we can approach the throne boldly.

Answer 1

John 17 disproves the trinity. At John 17:3, Jesus said his Father was the ONLY true God, thus excluding himself.

In verse 2, Jesus said that he was GIVEN "authority over all flesh." If he were part of a trinity, wouldn't he already have that authority?

At John 17:17, Jesus said that the Scriptures were whose word of truth? His? No! His Father's.

Whose name did Jesus come to earth to make known? His own? No! The holy spirit? No! He came to make his Father's name known. John 17:26. If there were a trinity, why not make the holy spirit's name known too?

John 10:30, is often cited to support the Trinity, even though no third person is mentioned there. But Jesus himself showed what he meant by his being "one" with the Father. At John 17:21, 22, he prayed to God that his disciples "may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, . . . that they may be one just as we are one." Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were.—See also 1 Corinthians 1:10.

Be honest with yourself. If you had not been indoctrinated with the trinity doctrine, would you think God is made up of 3 co-eternal, co-equal, and almighty persons by reading John chapter 17?

Answer 2

Have you heard of St Thomas Aquinas:

Nature of the Trinity
Aquinas argued that God, while perfectly united, is also perfectly described by three interrelated persons. These three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are constituted by their relations within the essence of God. The Father generates the Son (or the Word) by the relation of self-awareness. This eternal generation then produces an eternal Spirit "who enjoys the divine nature as the Love of God, the Love of the Father for the Word."

This Trinity does not exist in separation from the world. On the contrary, the Trinity serves to communicate God's self and God's goodness to human beings. This takes place through the Incarnation of the Word in the person of Jesus Christ and through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (indeed, the very essence of the Trinity itself) within those who have experienced salvation by God .

Answer 3

You are correct to say that men defined the "Trinity". The word or concept is not even in the Bible. Jesus himself said that the Father was greater than him. Trinitarians believe that Jesus and God are equal. Jesus disproved that. Jesus died, God cannot. Jesus prayed to his father many times. Who was he praying to if he were God himself? Also, at his baptism His father's voice was heard to say that he approved of his son. If that were Jesus talking he sure was a good ventriloquist. I'm glad you are doing research, rather than listening to men's traditions that have no basis from the Bible.

Answer 4

I thought the God-head was a Hindu thing. God sits at the right hand of God and God gave God's life for the sins of the world. I don't understand the sacrifice in this case.

Answer 5

Oness as reconciliation. I don't lose my sleep over the trinity convolutions.