Did CHRIST have PRE-EXISTENCE?

Question

I still can't understand why most utterly denies CHRIST'S pre-existence when the SAVIOUR HIMSELF taught that HE EXISTED with the FATHER even before the world was made.In one of HIS prayers to the FATHER, CHRIST said...
"GLORIFY THOU ME IN THY OWN PRESENCE WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS MADE" (John 17-5, emphasis added).
Kindly notice the verb used ("HAD") which is in the past tense form and the point in time referred to ("before the world was made").
Isn't it obvious that JESUS had pre-existence...doesn't it prove also that CHRIST IS INDEED GOD...your answer is highly appreciated-thanks a lot.

Answer 1

Yes, Christ did have a pre-existance, as did we all. Christ, God and Michael (Adam) helped form the world and the universe. But, I believe that God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings. Christ couldn't be God's son if they were one person. God and Christ work together as one, they are one in purpose, not one in body. They do have bodies, as Christ has proven, when he came to his disciples after his Resurrection. It proves that he has a body. Where did his body go after he was resurrected if He and God were one? Also, if they were one, Christ wouldn't have prayed to himself. He always calls God "Father". To me that means that God was the father of his spirit, as well as his body. I'm not saying that God had sex with Mary. I do believe that the Holy Spirit was involved, and a lot of science that we may not understand, but Christ was God's only Begotten in the Flesh.

Read John 14:28. "My Father is greater than I". Also, how do you explain Stephen seeing Christ on the right hand of God in Acts 7:56?

The bible explains this over and over. And if the bible is all the word we need for salvation, then why do we need a creed written by a bunch of scholars who didn't understand the complexities of God? (Catholic Encyclopedia 2:33-34.)

Christ has said that He does nothing save what He has seen the Father do. Wouldn't that mean that he would have had to see his Father in action at some point? God would have had to teach him. He is always referring to God as Father. So, hence they can't be the same person, or that would be like me saying that I'm my own mother.

If they were one, then why was God's voice heard when Christ was baptized saying "This is my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"? And why would the Holy Spirit come down as in the form of a dove (Matt 3:13-17)? Also, when Christ was on the cross, He prayed to His Father and said Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me (Matt 27:46)? I don't think He would pray to himself.

I know most Christian sects believe in the trinity, and I'm not here to bash anyone. I just want to point out that it states very clearly that they are two separate people. Also, if anyone can show me an actual scripture where it says the word trinity and doctrine, together, then I will believe it.

Answer 2

Orthodox Christianity (Catholics, Orthodoxes, and Protestants) believe in a trinity. Since they believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in presence and being, there seems to be no ambiguity nor conflict with this passage. A traditionalist Christian would even point out that "there is no need to 'glorify Christ if it was already done in some pre-existence'.

Some modern denominations of Christianity, namely denominations that denounce the doctrine of the Trinity (i.e. The LDS (Mormon) Church, The Watchtower Bible Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses), etc), claim that this passage makes more sense if assumed that the Father and Son are separate personages, that Christ's 'glorification' happened after the fact since he 'wasn't God from the get-go like the father was'. Either way, it seems that both interpretations make sense, it all boils down to what one believes.

Answer 3

As for the equality of diety between the Father and Son. The Father has given all power and judgement to the Son. Mormons believe The Father, The Son and The holy Ghost are three seperate personages, but are one Godhead (found in the bible.) As for Sasi's opinion, James Talmadge is a good teacher but he was never the President of the Church. All books made by authors (General Authorities or otherwise) are the author's own opinion not official Mormon Doctrine. The Standard Works of the Church, (The Bible, The Book Of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl Of Great Price) and any new revelations given to the Church. As for percieving Jesus just based on the bible is like percieving with half the knowledge you will have of Jesus.

Answer 4

Jesus in his pre-existence is identified largely in the OLD Testament as "THE angel of the Lord" as apposed to "an angel of the Lord".

He is the one of three that spoke visited Abraham. Jacob wrestled with the Lord (the angel of the Lord) and so on.

In every case this figure unlike any other angel, spoke as if God himself. It would appear Jesus was God's exacting spokes person / representative even back then.

This pre-existence also explains how demons in the New Testament recognized him. They knew who he was at sight.

Stephen just before he was stoned mentioned an Angel appeared in the burning bush to Moses. Jesus in one of the Gospels said of himself "I Am" in reference to the words spoken from the burning bush - the voice of "the" angel of the Lord as God gave direction.

Read the accounts in the Gospel of John and you will see where Jesus clearly says he spoke exactly what the Father taught him to say and did what the Father shown him to do. He often spoke as God because God gave him the words.

AND finally - one might note that in Genesis, the angels are called "the sons of God".

People who do not read the Bible or do not read it well enough - will reject this and not even explore the possibility. Non the less the Lord shown these personal details with me, and I share them with you.

Answer 5

Jesus was created by God and is the Only Begotten Son.
Jesus used God's Holy Spirit to create all things that exist both seen and unseen.
He was in heaven with his father before being sent to the earth to prove that a perfect man could keep his integrity to Jehovah.

Answer 6

Gen 1:26 "And God said, let Us make man in Our image,...."
God here is "Elohim" the plural form. Obviously, the triune God created all that is. Christ was and is God, for all eternity, past and present. He was not created, He existed with the Father and Holy Spirit before the universe was ever created.

Answer 7

God the Son exists from all eternity. When God the Son became human, he took on some human limitations; he was conceived and born. As human, he was named Jesus and he was the Christ. It would seem that since he was not human before that, nor was he the son of Mary until he was conceived in her body, that he would not be referred to as Jesus or Christ until that time.

Answer 8

True. Jesus is part of the holy trinity.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1

Jesus is the eternal word of God, therefore Jesus Christ has always proceeded from God the father. For example, rays proceed from the sun. Everything was made for and through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the "agent" in which God used to created the universe.

Answer 9

Proverbs 8

Answer 10

Yes also in Gen 1:26, its clear. You are asking 2 questions here. To try to zero in on you, yes you are right in saying that just becauese he did have a pre-existance it doesnt mean he is God. But we never said that that is why! I would suggest posting a separate question asking why do we believe that...

God Bless you, it was a good observation