Then if I put you in the same exact situation, with the same exact brain state and the same exact input from the senses, will you make the same choice no matter how many times we repeat it? If yes, you have no free will and Christianity falls apart.
2007-02-09 02:41:34 · 29 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Yes, I left out quantum randomness. I didn't want to confuse the issue. It doesn't matter if randomness is involved, you might get a different choice but randomness does not equal free will.
2007-02-09 02:49:06 · update #1
It doesn't matter if this situation is impossible to engineer. The point is that what you choose to do is controlled by your previous brain state and input, which were controlled by THEIR previous brain state and input, and so on. How does that leave room for free will? You had no choice but to think the way you did.
2007-02-09 02:52:00 · update #2
kjygs: Yes, you might answer the survey differently tomorrow, but you will have a different brain state and different input tomorrow. I am talking about EXACTLY the same situation.
2007-02-09 02:56:14 · update #3
I give up.
2007-02-09 02:57:01 · update #4
The answer is yes.
Christians reject logic, so it's not going to make sense to them.
2007-02-09 02:43:36 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 6⤋
<<
The first experience, I touch the hot iron. Due to this experience, I am again presented with the same exact situation, but my brain state cannot be the same, because, I now know I will get burned if I touch the iron, so, I will use my free will and decide whether to touch the iron or not.
BTW, even if your proposition were true, Christianity would not fall apart. Christians would continue to be Christians, thus producing Christianity.
2007-02-09 03:48:27 · answer #2 · answered by clwkcmo 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
If what you suggested could possibly happen, then yes you could say we have no free will. But, the exact same situation, same people, same circumstances, same senses, same exact information happening twice sounds impossible. The other thing you did not put into your equation is the presence of the Holy Spirit, which is a big part of Christianity and helps guide us if we pay attention. Even with the Holy Spirit leading us the right way, we manage to go in a different direction at times. Nobody is perfect or totally programmable IMHO.
May God Bless you.
2007-02-09 03:05:33 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Your "if" question is almost an impossibility. The likelihood of being able to recreate the exact circumstances in which a person makes a choice is so low because of our inability to control the circumstances under which decisions are made. How do you know that you made the brain chemistry / state just right? How do you know that exactly the same input is present for the senses to perceive? I understand that your question is somewhat of a thought experiment, but I just found it difficult to imagine.
Aside from that, I don't really see Christianity as a religion that is in line with free will. Since Christians believe in the omnipotent, omnipresent higher being, who has ultimate control over all things, how can Christians possibly see themselves as having free will? Isn't it the case the Christians are supposed to adhere to the will of god?
Just a thought :-)
2007-02-09 02:53:42 · answer #4 · answered by ms_lain_iwakura 3 · 1⤊ 0⤋
You're not defining "brain state," and how you came up with the concept. Is that simply the chemicals/neurons in the brain at a point in time? If so, some of that is determined by choices (about what to think about, whether or not to get enough sleep, diet and therefore blood sugar level, drugs in the system, etc.), so you have a chicken and egg issue here.
I believe people are affected (of course) by things like their brain chemicals or outside circumstances, but I think it's a stretch (at best) to say that those things force your decisions. We all act on "auto-pilot?"
That would say that we are not really alive. We function like the computers we're typing on, no choices, no thoughts, no emotions; nothing real, conscious, or human?
No, not buying that.
2007-02-09 02:59:39 · answer #5 · answered by peacetimewarror 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
First, basic science says it is impossible to repeat brain states and sensory input (temporal changes + quantum effects). So the question is moot.
But if you wanted to be philosophical, one might argue that free will specifically falls into that crack that is non-repeatable. One might go so far as to label that aspect of reality (the part which cannot be replicated) the spiritual aspect. Now, this is getting a little far-fetched, but is a possibility--that the spiritual is, by definition, that which cannot be replicated and cannot be defined.
2007-02-09 02:46:19 · answer #6 · answered by Qwyrx 6 · 3⤊ 0⤋
Interesting premise, however Christianity is not completely based on free will in that it is not a central doctrine.
Secondly, the test for free will would be in the same situation, brain state etc, is could you choose differently even if you didn't want to.
2007-02-09 02:52:49 · answer #7 · answered by Pirate AM™ 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
It seems as if you're asking this from a philosophical rather than a theological angle. Free will in the theological sense has to do with man's ability to choose God, not the making of day-to-day decisions-- although this is often extrapolated to all of free will, as Calvinism is often accused of.
But from the philosophical angle, I have often taken surveys that I know I would answer completely differently the following day. Same question, completely different interpretation and importance to me depending on my mood at that instant.
2007-02-09 02:48:24 · answer #8 · answered by ccrider 7 · 2⤊ 0⤋
well Christianity cannot fall apart because of men generically because christianity has never been about mankind but about God's glory.
How God orchastrates a circumstance or an event is way beyond our imagination and that in christianity our free will has to very well be surrendered to God idealistically. But say what determines our state of mind and the course of action to take?
our hope in God which transforms our attitudes.
On the other hand another will say if our free will isnt pre-determined...christianity falls apart because our free will makes us God as God doesnt know what is going on.
2007-02-09 03:03:33 · answer #9 · answered by schwarzeneggerchia 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
A person with free will is one who is not chosen by God. You have about as much Biblical knowledge as a grapefruit; You can sit there and figure up reasons why its valid to say that Christianity falls apart with this or that good reasoning, but the fact is that you don't understand what the circumstances are behind those with free will and those without it.
2007-02-09 02:54:17 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
Why? If the response to certain information and stimuli are always the same, all that means is that the underlying programming is stable.
But you seem to have a stilited view of free will. Free will does not mean choosing between ketchup or mayonaisse on your fries. Free will is strictly limited to moral choices...specifically to follow God's instructions or not.
So....paper or plastic....not a 'free will' decision.
Firing your gun at the @$$wipe that cut you off....FREE WILL DECISION!!!
2007-02-09 02:50:25 · answer #11 · answered by mzJakes 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋