I have a logic question about the exsistence of God?

Question

Let's start with the assumption that an Atheist knows that there are no dieties/gods/supernatural beings.

However, if you simply BELIEVE there is no God, this does not apply.

To know there are no Gods, one must know everything in and about the universe.
If one knows everything in and about the universe, they are, by definition, God.
If Atheists are their own God, then there is no such thing as an Atheist.

If one holds the simple belief that there is no God, one is not certain.
If one is not certain about the exsistence of a God, by definition, they are an Agnostic.

Is my logic wrong here?

Bad Liberal, you apparently didn't read the rest that rules out the "If you simply BELIEVE there is no God" assumption.

Sho, everything you stated leads to the conclusion that no one is certain.

Is this what you mean?

Answer 1

Yes your logic is wrong.

1. Atheists do not believe there are gods
2. To not believe there are gods you have to have no evidence to support the existence of gods
3. You do not have to know everything in the universe to have no evidence of something in the universe.
4. An atheist is not an agnostic because agnostics say that although there is no evidence of a god there may be a possibility that there is a god. An atheist says if there were a god the evidence would be evident.

You cant be a god and not be somewhere. You would have to be everywhere, otherwise you are not a god.

Edit: No that is not the conclusion. The conclusion is that since the evidence of God is not everywhere and since it makes sense that an omnipresent god would have evidence everywhere we can conclude that god doesn't exist with complete certainty.

Answer 2

Hmm...interesting logic puzzle. I think I exist in a crack in the skirting of the question though.

Being as I am, a humble human being, living on a single planet within a vast and awe-inspiring universe, I am unable to know all the wonders that exist within that universe. Truth be told, as I am realising more and more as time goes on, I am probably unable to know even all the wonders that exist within my one little planet. Therefore my statements and certainties could well be characterised as beliefs. However, I would submit that, using all the evidence available to me, I can upgrade these beliefs into "reasonable certainties". Reasonable certainties are of course open to destruction by advances in knowledge - people once had these reasonable certainties that the earth was flat, or that the earth was the centre of the universe. While ultimately errant, these reasonable certainties are empirical and based on the best evidence the universe currently has to offer me. This concept of reasonable certainty is what allows me to be atheist, rather than simply agnostic, without daring to claim (as would surely be entirely ludicrous) that I am any kind of god.

I repeat of course that this reasonable certainty is entirely vulnerable to being disproved at a later date, but as that date would be dependent on a god revealing themself to me, or to other atheists that follow after my death, there's probably be other things to worry about at that point than my being wrong :o)

Make any sense?

Answer 3

Youre assuming that one needs proof positive of something in order to be certain of it. Atheists are very comfortable the way they are and what they believe because what they believe gives them what they want, separation from God.

But you have rightly pointed out that an atheist can NEVER never under any circumstances KNOW proof positive that there is NO God. The more inteligent of atheists will admit as much but never admit they are uncomfortable with the worldview they have chosen.

An agnostic however WILL admit doubt and discomfort over not knowing proof positive that there is no God but leans toward atheism.

Answer 4

Your question is illogical. We don't believe anything, we have a lack of belief. The burden of proof falls on you to prove God, not for us to disprove God. Atheists don't believe in God because of lack of proof. You may have a hard time separating Atheists from Agnostics, but Agnostics don't believe there is enough evidence for or against God, but Atheists just have no belief in God. The two labels do overlap slightly, but are still separate terms to describe ones religious stance.

Answer 5

A gnostic atheist - says there is no god as much as that there are no unicorns, no fairies, etc.

I can say there is no invisible purple dragon whispering in my ear. Do I know EVERYTHING in the universe in order to say this? No.

An agnostic atheist - simply lacks the belief in a god.

An agnostic theist - believes there may be a higher being.

A gnostic theist - says there is a god.

Your "logic" is flawed because, firstly, you assume being agnostic is separate from theism and atheism. There are other reasons, but why go on if your words are used incorrectly in the first place?

Answer 6

Of course it is incorrect. We are not gods, we are more powerful than gods, and that is what atheist know. Why can god not kill me, but another person can? That obviously means that all people are more powerful than god. If you say that god makes you die at age 90, then i would say, it was a habit of food that had you die at 90, so therefore food is more powerful than god. If you say god had a person ram into me with the car, then god has not touched me and a person is what has hurt me. Therefore people are superior to god.

Reply to poster about his addition detail:

Read mine carefully i didn't assume i stated, i didn't say i believe or i think, i said i am. I also used examples.

Answer 7

Your logic will only make sense to other fundies who desperately want it to be so.

It's not illogical to disregard ridiculous claims. That's the rational stance. I disregard the idea of unicorns and elves too. You can't prove they don't exist, but you'd be a fool if you believed in them. There's no evidence that they do. And not believing in the childhood monster under my bed does not make me a Monster agnostic.

Answer 8

The same logic applies to those of us who believe in some sort of higher power. There is no proof one way or the other, that's why it's called a belief, and everyone is entitled to their own.

Answer 9

The universe is like God's fingerprint. God's creation shows that He exists and that He is the One who created it. (Romans 1:20) See www.reasons.org

Answer 10

I found that explanation very interesting. Enlightening as well!

It reminded me of this jewel of a Scripture.....You will see the perfect fit I am sure.

"For there are many, I used to mention them often but now I mention them also with weeping, who are walking as the enemies of the torture stake of the Christ, and their finish is destruction, and their god is their belly, and their glory consists in their shame, and they have their minds upon things on the earth"
-Philippians 3:18-19