For those professing Christians who believe in the annihilation of the souls of the wicked...?

Question

Mark 14:21 - "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed ! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born."
This was how the Lord Jesus spoke of Judas Iscariot, who would betray Him.
Question - if the wicked (including Judas) are annihilated and / or cease to exist after death as some teach, why would the Lord say that the non - existence of never having been born would be preferable to the non - existence of death, if indeed, there is no existence for the wicked in eternity (ie. Hell) ?

What about Revelation 14:9 & 10 ? In verse 10, it says, " (anyone who worships the beast and receives it's mark)...shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be TORMENTED with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb".
Verse 11 continues, "and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name". (Caps for emphasis).
Tormented ? No rest day or night ? Is that the language of annihilationism ?
Should we distort the word of God to make it say what we want it to say purely because the reality of the wrath of God is not to our taste ?

People quote from Ecclesiastes to argue for the extinction of the human soul after death, often at the expense of what is taught in the far brighter light of NT revelation.
Ecclesiastes is not primarily a doctrinal work. It was not even considered on a par with the Law & Prophets by the Jews. True, it contains no dogmatic teaching concerning Hell & eternal punishment, but neither does it contain similar teaching on salvation & eternal life, does it ? Does that negate the clearly taught reality of such matters in the NT ? To base Christian doctrine upon a work which - while still being scripture - is quite obviously inferior in terms of Christian doctrinal content is folly, frankly. One ought to consider the WHOLE revelation of God.

The reputation argument concerning Judas is, I have to say, weak. If I were to go out of existence completely, why should I be the least bit concerned regarding any poor reputation I might leave behind ? How could the non - existence of never having been born be preferable to leaving behind a poor reputation of which one would be completely unaware ? The non - existence of never having been born would be FAR preferable, however, to conscious, eternal punishment in Hell...

Re Dunc's quotes from non - biblical sources:
Are you quoting from source Dunc, or from WT materials ?
WT often quote sources VERY selectively, often with no regard for context...

Re - the quote of Jer. 7:31:
As is usual with JW "exposition" of scripture, you have quoted totally out of context and misapplied this passage.
The context pertains to horrific pagan practices which were a totally unacceptable form of worship to the living God. In no way does this passage even begin to pertain to how God expresses His judgement & righteous anger.
Is God only a God of love ? Is He not also a God of holiness & wrath ? Your view of Him is unbalanced...
"Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men..." 2 Cor. 5:11.
"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31

Please consider also:
Does not the WT teach that Satan / the Devil is a personal being rather than just a symbol of evil ?
Revelation 20:10 - "The devil, who decieved them, was cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER." Can it be any clearer ?
If the devil - a personal being - will be tormented forever, is it unreasonable to assume that the wicked will be also ?
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says to the wicked, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels". If the final destination of the wicked is the same as Satan's, is it so unreasonable to conclude that the nature of their eternal state (ie. conscious torment) will be the same also ?
"And these will go way into everlasting punishment (kolasis - penal infliction)" Matthew 25:46.

Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Do you believe this ?" (John 11:25,26). Is this a lie of Satan, also ?
Of course, when the Lord says that the believer shall never die, He does not refer to physical death. He means that the believer shall continue to exist outside of the body, PRIOR to the resurrection. God is able to do this. Note Revelation 6:9 & 10, where the SOULS WHO HAD BEEN SLAIN for the word of God and the testimony which they had held CRIED OUT to God - does that sound like non - existence to you ?
Although the Bible does not teach that man is inherently immortal (1 Tim. 6:16), He is able to grant immortality to His people. Is it unresonable to assume that He is also able to do the same for those objects of his wrath ?

I would be happy to believe in annihilationism and even more happy to believe in universalism. I don't want ANYONE to die in their sins without having received God's FREE GIFT of forgiveness & eternal life through faith in Christ and go to the lake of fire. But does the Bible teach annihilationism & universalism ? I don't believe so. We must engage in OBJECTIVE examination of ALL the scriptures - particularly the clearer NT revelation - in order to establish correct doctrine. All too often, groups such as the Watchtower merely use the Bible as a series of proof texts for their own pet doctrines, usually with blatant disregard of context.

Answer 1

Hell is very real
read Rom 2 God judges with wrath and anger

Answer 2

I have to many questions about the question. Such as, are you sure Judas wasn't saved? and what about Age lasting? and Hell or the lake of fire? And what about everything reconciling to Christ? and bog I don't think I'm clever enough to work it all out.

I at the moment think it's eternity not age lasting. I will try to think more.

Being cut off is talking about being cut off from God which is a massive thing. Even now on this earth the holy spirit holds back the evil. So we don't even when we are non christian know what it's like not to feel God around us.

Answer 3

One who has never been born has no reputation, good or bad. It would have been finer for Judas had he never been born, for not only does he not gain life himself but he covered himself with obloquy or disgrace.

Those who think the sinners continue to live over look such simple passages as Psalm 37:38 --
But the transgressors shall be DESTROYED together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.

AS WELL AS

John3:16 --
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life.

(BTW, PERISH = be DESTROYED)

That is not even to mention Ezekiel 18:,4 and 20, where we read "The soul that sinneth, it shall FRY."

Oh no! Wait a minute; that is not what it says. It says: "The soul that sinneth, it shall DIE."

Apparently many believe Satan's first lie, that if we disobey God the we "shall not surely die." - Genesis 3:4.

Answer 4

“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.
“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.
What is the condition of the dead?

Eccl. 9:5: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts [“thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “all his thinking,” NE; “plans,” RS, NAB] do perish.”

Does the Bible indicate that the soul survives the death of the body?

Ezek. 18:4: “The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*“Soul,” KJ, Dy, RS, NE, Kx; “the man,” JB; “the person,” TEV.)

“The concept of ‘soul,’ meaning a purely spiritual, immaterial reality, separate from the ‘body,’ . . . does not exist in the Bible.”—La Parole de Dieu (Paris, 1960), Georges Auzou, professor of Sacred Scripture, Rouen Seminary, France, p. 128.

“Although the Hebrew word nefesh [in the Hebrew Scriptures] is frequently translated as ‘soul,’ it would be inaccurate to read into it a Greek meaning. Nefesh . . . is never conceived of as operating separately from the body. In the New Testament the Greek word psyche is often translated as ‘soul’ but again should not be readily understood to have the meaning the word had for the Greek philosophers. It usually means ‘life,’ or ‘vitality,’ or, at times, ‘the self.’”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1977), Vol. 25, p. 236

Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God’s personality?

Jer. 7:31: “They [apostate Judeans] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.” (If it never came into God’s heart, surely he does not have and use such a thing on a larger scale.)

Illustration: What would you think of a parent who held his child’s hand over a fire to punish the child for wrongdoing? “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) Would he do what no right-minded human parent would do? Certainly not

Answer 5

the reason being, maximum persons in this worldwide are followers. they are going to persist with one yet another off the sting of a cliff if all people else is doing it. They replica, they imitate, yet they infrequently think of two times a pair of remember. interior the Our Father/Lords Prayer one prays for the dominion to return to earth, so why would that is had to circulate to heaven first? the fact be known, Jesus (Yahushuwah) taught immortality and/or the resurrection of the lifeless. If one dies and is going to heaven, why would they'd desire to be resurrected from the lifeless? nicely, the English be conscious hell in Hebrew is sheol which purely ability the grave. This heaven and hell concept is recent in maximum historic pagan religions. Jesus (Yahushuwah) informed them thrice that the place he became going they won't come. - (John 3:thirteen;7:34;8:21). yet they're very complicated headed. All compliment be to the Almighty Father Yahuwah, interior the call of His in basic terms begotten son, Yahushuwah! The letter J did no longer exist up till 500 years in the past. His son's call: Zec.3.

Answer 6

This is one terrific question! Why do I think so?

If it is preferable not to be born if you will be wicked in life - and given that the god of the Abrahamic texts is supposed to see all and know all - then wouldn't the birth of Judas and every other perceived wicked individual since then be a psychopathic act given that this entity, better known as god, knew prior to birth that they would be wicked and languish in the non-existence of death post Judgment Day?

How can this god say in one breath, "I love you and I am the very definition of love," then in the next breath behave in the opposite and might I say, extremely reprehensible manner?

The whole thing is madness, in my humble opinion. If you take it literally, as ultimate truth. If you look at it as mythology, that's an entirely different matter.

I feel very sorry for the fundies who must live their lives under this inconsistent, mind boggling yoke.

Answer 7

Just like saying "If you're going to be friends with me just for the money, forget it, I'd rather not be used by you." So, for God to spend His time making someone who will never acknowledge Him or will be evil, it leads the world away from God enough to where Jesus wishes that they weren't born to make it easier on those who want to live peacefully and in Christ. (hopefully that made sense, it's what i get out of that article)

Answer 8

I don't know of anywhere in the Bible where it says that people will cease to exist. On the contrary, it says that we exist eternally either with or without God...OUR choice.

Answer 9

Well. did you miss the part where Jesus is comming to resurect ALL souls,
Even Satan's?


The bible says all kinds of stuff. But it doesn't make it all true.

Answer 10

How are you getting cease to exist,This is eternal hell.