student pilot wanting to buy his own piper tomahawk?

Question

hi, i am a student pilot and wanting to buy my own plain so i can learn to fly ? the question i have, is it a good idea? i am thinking to buy a piper tomahawk that has about 3500 total time and 2466 since last smoh and 120 stoh. the person selling the plain is asking about 15 to 18 thousand for it. if someone out there has any idea about single engine airplanes please help? thank you

Answer 1

There are 1,009 PA-38-112s on the FAA registry. There are 12,726 Cessna 150s and 3,895 Cessna 152s.
I would look into something there are a lot of rather than a few. There are too many hours on that engine to suit me, even though it has been top overhauled. It should have had a complete overhaul at 2,400 hrs.
I would also bet that there have been more ADs on the Piper than on the Cessna, which should tell you something about the aircraft, even if all the problems have been corrected. If you want a low wing, get a PA-28-140, they are a lot better than the Tomahawk.
All this is assuming you have the money to keep one up after you buy it.

Answer 2

Tomahawks are fine airplanes, these people that slam them are just jealous because they arent skilled enough to recover from a spin. And from what I have seen in the past is the only people that talk crap about them, have never actually flown one.
sounds like a fair price for the time on the plane, the engine is a run out ( 2400 TBO ) is average on the o-235 engine, I would stay closer to the 15K range for those hours, however a properly cared for o-235 can easily go to 3500 without an overhaul. Take a good look at the logs,
the initial cost is a small part of owning a plane, hangars can be quite expensive, annual inspections, and fuel, insurance, regular maint, can be a lot.
My Tomahawk costs an average of 3-4K a year to maintain not including fuel.
They have a much bigger cabin than a C-150 and have slightly better performance.
The only downside I have ever seen to owning one in 5 years is that parts can be hard to find when you need them, there were only little more than 2400 ever made and a lot of those are still in service,
there is pipertomahawk.com, and a pa-38 group on Yahoo where we all swap parts and advice.
I say if you can afford it, go for it!, I have nothing but good memories with my Tomahawk.
Hope this helps
Good luck and happy flying.
( if you are withn a couple hundred miles of MI ) drop me an email I would be happy to do a pre buy inspection for you.

Answer 3

Piper Tomahawk

Answer 4

This Site Might Help You.

RE:
student pilot wanting to buy his own piper tomahawk?
hi, i am a student pilot and wanting to buy my own plain so i can learn to fly ? the question i have, is it a good idea? i am thinking to buy a piper tomahawk that has about 3500 total time and 2466 since last smoh and 120 stoh. the person selling the plain is asking about 15 to 18 thousand for it....

Answer 5

First of all a Piper Tomahawk is a P L A N E, it is in no way plain.
I recommend that you get yourself a pilot licence 1st. There are many other considerations than just the initial cost.
There are maintenance costs, tie-down fees, or hangar fees, plus the one that will probably hit you the hardest INSURANCE.
I suggest you shop around some of the insurance companies BEFORE you buy this aircraft & tell them what you are planning to buy, & make sure you tell them how many hours you have flown so far, & of course the fact that you aren't licensed yet.
Also join your local flying club & make friends with some of the aircraft owners there. You will get mounds of advice on what to buy, & how to go about it from guys who have been through it all.
Happy Flying.

Answer 6

As for buying a trainer in which to do your training, it depends on what you plan to do. If you're looking to go all the way to ATP and fly for the airlines, it might make sense. If you're just wanting to go fly around, maybe do a little traveling, then a trainer--the standard 2-seat type-doesn't make much sense.

Even if you put 200-300 hours on it, you'll probably be able to get back nearly all of what you paid for it when you sell it. The same applies for larger airplanes, esp. if you buy it with mid-time engines (around halfway to TBO). Of course, this is provided you take care of it and don't damage it.

The PA-38 has major certification issues that the FAA has chosen to ignore. The basic problem is that the as-produced PA-38s do not conform to the design that was issued a type certificate by the FAA. Now, being a pilot that may have zoomed right over your head, but as a mechanic (that's me) that's an enormous problem. What that means is that Piper altered the design that the FAA approved, without going back through a flight test program.

The airplane was initially designed with a much stiffer wing skin that what was eventually produced. What can happen--and what has happened in several fatality accidents--is that the wing skin can 'oil can', or deform, altering the shape of the wing and thereby changing the lift characteristics of each wing. 'Each wing' is an important part of that statement to remember--because you end up with assymetrical lift (one wing developing more lift (and more induced drag) than the other wing). The net result is that each Tomahawk has different stall/spin characteristics. Some may be similar to others, but no two are completely identical. Some may be benign, as a trainer should be, but some can be vicious.

While I personnally am all in favor of spin training--I think it never should have been deleted from the private pilot requirements--it needs to be done in an airplane that's safe to spin, and doesn't require 'heroic' measures--like shoving your body up against the instrument panel, as a pair of pilots had to do in a Tomahawk years ago, to shift the CG as far forward as possible to break the airplane out of a spin.

Here's an exerpt from the NTSB's review of the PA-38, referring to a section of FAR Part 23, which covers airworthiness standards for normal, utility, acrobatic, and commuter airplanes:

"Section 23.221 states that it must be impossible to obtain unrecoverable spins with any use of the flight or engine power controls either at the entry into or during the spin. However, during the Board’s review of PA-38-112 accidents/incidents, the Safety Board learned of several incidents in which unsafe, flat spins have been encountered in the PA-38-112."

It's not a matter of being 'afraid' to spin an airplane, it's a matter of being able to recover from a spin, especially for a inexperienced, low-time pilot. To pretend otherwise, to shrug this issue off as unimportant to a 'real' pilot, is nothing more that macho posturing that will inevitably end up with one's funeral. Maybe that's a little harsh, but I've lost a number of friends in my time in aviation, and I really don't like seeing airplanes I've worked on crunched into a field somewhere because the pilot did something stupid or careless.

Check out the second link below, before buying (or flying in) a Tomahawk. It's interesting to note that the Beech Skipper, which looks almost identical to the Tomahawk, has none of the Tomahawk's problems. BTW, the FAA ultimately rejected the NTSB's request for a new flight test certification program on the PA-38 Tomahawk.

For a cheap trainer, I'd stay with an IFR-equipped Cessna 152 or a 150. To make things work financially, it would be better to have an airplane that you could continue to fly to get your instrument. If you're more interested in flying for fun and personal transportation than for the airlines, you might look at a 172 or a Cherokee, which would cost a little more, but you'd be able to fly farther and carry a couple of people with you.

The same caveats apply to buying a trainer as with buying any other airplane--get a pre-purchase inspection by a third party, do a title search, and in the case of a student pilot, ask your instructor to check it out, and see what he/she thinks of the airplane.

Answer 7

The Cessna 150 has been one of the most popular trainers for years because it is simple, safe, and cheap to fly but it still gives a challenge for student pilots to truly master it (like smooth full flap landings). Some drawbacks of the 150 are the small cabin and almost too docile spin characteristics. Enter the Tomahawk (Traumahawk). It was designed with the input of several top flight instructors who wanted more room and a more sudden (but still safe) spin characteristics. An easy (and cheap) cure for the flight training bug is to go up in one with an eager instructor and ask for a spin demonstration. As far as basic flying goes these planes are pretty similar.

Answer 8

That is pretty low time but it's still a "Traumahawk". I would be very careful in purchasing this plane. They can be little maintenance pigs. They have a poor door design that easily allows water to get inside the interior.The Lycoming O-235 that it has requires valve adjustment on a frequent basis, it historically fouls plugs left & right, and is overall anemic.
The landing gear needs routine attention not only with ongoing nose shimmy issues that pop up more than your checkbook wants but the mains need a lot of attention too. The main gear leg springs work their way loose and need routine re-torquing by design flaw.
Another thing with Traumahawks, or any piper for that matter is the poor design of the fuel sender gaskets and/or improper installation of them. They leak very easily.
Last but not least the engine cowling is very flimsy and it eventually chafes through right at the nose bowl & firewall ridges.

On a positive note, providing the plane has been well taken care of and has impeccable log books that is not a bad price for a low time trainer.

Answer 9

Tomahawk are a good aircraft to build up hours in while getting your private pilot rating. But like some of the answers before you have a lot of factors to take into consideration, like Insurance, tie-down fees, and most of all maintenance. I have seen many people purchase airplanes and not take these factors into consideration and really get in over their heads. One way that some people balance there costs is to put the aircraft on leaseback with a local flight school (something to look into). But as far as the aircraft, I would suggest that even before you have it go to prepurchase get a mechanic to take a look at the plane and look over the logbooks for you.

good luck!

Answer 10

The tomahawk also known as the traumahawk is a great time builder but before you buy one your average hanger fee is going to be around 50 to 75 a month av fuel is higher than auto fuel (as u probably know) now the other expenses insurance/ an's /tie down fees to and landing fees / maint./ remember you cant make a Penney without a commercial pilots license . but if you can afford it go for it. my pick would be a tomahawk or cessna 150
you can find these planes on internet for same price he is asking
usually around 16k.
good place to go is www.barnstormers.com