AKC vs. CKC?

Question

I think I may have finally found a reputable breeder. Her dogs are family raised, aren't constantly kept in kennels, she has references, genetic guarantees, she makes sure the puppies don't leave their mother too early, she only raises one breed, and told me up front what kind of problems this breed is prone too. She also has her dogs registered. But what worries me is that they are CKC registered (Continental Kennel Club). I've been told that CKC is better than AKC. CKC is more lenient with what dogs they accept, and that they aren't as good as AKC.

Just because a dog is AKC registered, doesn't mean the breeders are reputable. Some people see that a dog is AKC registered and immediately think they're getting the best. In fact, the breeder I'm considering uses CKC and not AKC because she thinks this will discourage people who want an AKC puppy to one day breed at a puppy mill.

My question is do you think that this is a reputable breeder even though her dogs are CKC?

I'm looking for a Westie, just for a pet. I won't be breeding it. The breeder I'm interested has a genetic health guarantee on the dogs and will provide references upon request. She's asking $700 for a CKC puppy. Is this too much?

Answer 1

It does sound as though she is a conscientious breeder, who began with at least one parent that was not AKC registrable.
but, if you accept her reasoning, it certainly does NOT hold water..as CKC is the largest puppy mill registry..If you look at their website, they tell you that..
If you are searching for pet quality puppy, she may well have nice pets for sale..However, they should go for the price of non-registered puppies, as their registration is meaningless.
It is merely a piece of nice paper that she has paid for..and will give you bragging rights.

To be better assured that you are getting a good, healthy puppy, take a look at her oldest dog. Become familiar with the breed problems, and see if that oldest dog has any of the problems showing up...cataracts, spraddled leggs,(luxating patellas) weak hips. arthritis, etc..If she has no older dogs, she either puts them down or hasn't been in the breed very long..Good time to ask how many generations she has bred..and how long her dogs live.

Note: If her dogs were AKC, there is a little box to check on the form when selling puppies that says, 'limited registration'..That assures that no offspring of that dog can be registered as AKC..and would be the proper deterrent to keep them out of puppy mills as AKC..However, puppy mills will simply re-register them as CKC, and breed them anyway..So, her reasoning is false..

Answer 2

CKC and AKC are kennel clubs who register the bloodline of the dog for at least 7 generations, they also educate pet owners and have dog shows. Neither is better than the other, they are each unique in other things they offer their members Not all kennel clubs register bloodlines some just have shows and educate. I belong to both ckc and akc I breed and have dogs registered with both and I see so much misinformation that I would like to clear up a myth that I see repeated over and over. You cannot send in a picture to CKC and two signatures and get a mutt a purebred status. CKC and AKC both offer to owners of mutts, papers for agility, that's where the photo comes in. This is something that was offered to help shelters move dogs. No where on those papers does it say "purebred," most pet stores offer this, with "papers," they do not say they are for agility. I think this has done a great deal of harm and caused mass confusion about the dog breeding world.
When a litter is born,if the parents were registered with ckc so must the litter, and their litters and so on, that's how they trace the bloodline, the same is true with litters born to akc parents. It is a registry, that is all. In addition each kennel club offers their members different things, dog shows, education, tips and so on. Akc has higher fees than Ckc, but for that reason ckc is growing.
Now here's the confusing part, if you have a ckc mom and a akc dad what are the puppies? Akc will not accept ckc but ckc will accept akc so you must register the dad with ckc too, so that the puppies will be ckc puppies. Why is this important because it continues the record of the bloodline.
Why have papers at all? Here is why, the bloodline tells you your dog is purebred, that the breeder is following the rules of breeding. Ckc and Akc will not register a litter if there has been less than 6 months between litters, this is to protect the health of the mother and the litters.
Ukc United kennel club of the Uk was the first kennel club ever and they will not accept akc or ckc dogs though they will trace your dogs ancestry to them for a fee, your registered dog here cannot be registered there, why, cause that's their kennel club rule.
Who makes these rules? Board members, the same kind of board members that make the rules here. These are not vets, doctors, presidents of anything, these are other dog breeders and dog lovers. As the board members die off the rules change, it was not long ago that dobermans were considered mutts.
A good breeder will communicate and educate before and after the sale, it matters not the kennel club that breeder and dog belongs to. What a good breeder will not do is trash other kennel clubs. All kennel clubs put the dogs well being first because they are dog lovers and that is just good business. I have yet to meet a ckc or akc breeder that did not spend long hours doing the best for their dogs and carefully select who their puppies go home with.
The phrase only breed to improve the breed, is nice in theory but "improve" is a matter of opinion. Labradoodles a mix of Labrador and Standard poodle. When first bred, they got so much press, sellers were telling people less chance for illness, no shedding etc, etc, the reality was the Labradoodle inherited all the bad heath problems of both breeds and very few of them accomplished the non shedding claim. Owners were shocked that they could not register as Akc or Ckc, both kennel clubs stuck to their guns, and as we now know, it was the right call. They are not purebreds, they are mutts,, they are very pretty mutts, but their bloodline cannot be traced. Have labradoodles breeders improved the mutt? It's really a matter of opinion, all I know is what the original breeder said years later... that if he had it to do over again he would not.

Answer 3

Ckc Vs Akc

Answer 4

Without meeting this woman and seeing her dogs it would be hard to judge whether or not she is reputable. However, As you pointed out CKC is more lenient with their dogs. They also do not do conformation, which is what AKC does (along with field, agility, etc) I don't know any reputable AKC breeders that also register CKC. Like you also said, not all people that say they have AKC dogs are reputable breeders. That is why you should get in touch with the parent club through AKC.org and get in touch with the breed you want's referral person. They can point you to a reputable breeder. I personally wouldn't buy anything CKC or pay the same price for something that is CKC that I could get AKC, just because of their standards for the dogs and the fact that they do nothing with conformation, and therefore you could be breeding dogs that are conformationally defective and since most of those breeders aren't geared towards conformation showing (if they were they would have AKC dogs, not CKC) they may not know. Thats my two cents. What kind of dog are you looking for?

Answer 5

dogs that are ckc mean they CAN come from puppmills. i'm not sure if ckc does this but akc checks out your kennel if there are more than 7 litters per year. i work at a dog kennel and i've seen a lot of what goes into taking care of puppies from the time they're born until when go home. ask the breeder for a pedigree and for heart eye hip whatever clearences that tell you whether the parents are healthy in all areas or not. honestly, it has nothing to do with papers, akc ckc nkc whatever's out there you just have to make sure you have documentation that the parents are healthy and that the puppies are being kept well in a clean safe enviorment being socialized enough

i just bought my puppy with NO papers and even though that is looked down upon, the breeder had everything i needed to know. papers are used to show and breed

Answer 6

I'm pretty sure that breeders that are considered "reputable" have to be either AKC or CKC (not Continental Kennel Club, I'm talking about the Canadian Kennel Club) or something else depending on which country you live in. Continental Kennel Club is known for being a lax club, and they'll even accept certain designer breeds. And of course, if you want to show the dog, it must be AKC registered.

But it doesn't sound like she's a bad person to buy from if you're just looking for a pet. If everything matches a reputable breeder, it's possible that she's a fine breeder.

Answer 7

"Lenient" is I guess what you COULD call it. They will register ANY dog for a fee. They require three photos. You can send in photos of your next door neighbors DEAD dog and they will register it. There is NO other check. People can have a mix that look kinda like a breed and they will register it. This is why pet stores and BYB use the CKC. They can get registration papers for the dogs that were NOT registered before. No proof of being purebred required!!!!! IF you want to pay for that, more power to ya!!! I would not. The registration paper is best used as toilet paper. You could start your own registry tomorrow and offer, for a fee, registration "papers".
This breeder is CLUELESS. She is trying to justify her use of CKC because she clearly cannot use AKC. Most of the puppy mills are now using the CKC since it is cheaper. So how does this discourage ANYONE from starting up a puppy mill???? It doesn't. She does not have AKC registered dog FOR A REASON. Maybe she bought her breeding dogs from a pet store that sold CKC registered pups. Whatever. It is your money.
The reason to breed is to IMPROVE the breed. IF you do not show the dogs and do health clearances, you are not breeding QUALITY dog, you are just a "puppies for profit" breeder.
Make sure she had OFA clearances for the breeding dogs. If she does not, then registry aside, it is NOT a reputable breeder.

Answer 8

In my opinion, I would never buy a CKC dog. I agree with the fact that there are bad AKC breeders; however, reputable breeders only breed to improve upon the breed standard. If dog is CKC registered, their genetics mean nothing because it does not have to be a purebred dog - it only has to look like it could belong to the breed. You can not show a dog registered with the CKC, unless you also get an ILP number from the AKC (which also requires that the animal be spayed or neutered).

A person that is breeding dogs registered with the CKC - is a puppy mill operator. They are doing it for the money only. They are not showing their dogs - competing for the best in the breeds or the obedience ring. This is the main reason that people show dogs - they want to prove their dog's bloodlines and genetics are superior to the next dogs.

If you are looking for a "pet" and feel comfortable with the breeder, there isn't any reason why you couldn't buy a dog from her, but it is definitely not worth the same amount of money that an AKC registered dog is worth (from a reputable breeder that is).

Answer 9

Yes, this breeder sounds very good. A good breeder doesn't actually have to be AKC or CKC. This registration is for only some breeds, not all breeds. For instance, I have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and she isn't an AKC registered dog because the AKC doesn't recognized this breed even though it has been here for about 15 years now. It depends on your breed though - you can check with the AKC and CKC websites for more information about your breed. You have mentioned that you have checked into some important references and etc by the breeder however you contacted the veterinarian that this breeder goes to? You don't want to go to a breeder that does the vaccinations by him/herself. Also, make sure that you meet the mother of the dog you are thinking about adopting into your family. A good breeder will not get rid of the mother of the puppies. Never buy from a breeder that doesn't have the mother that you can meet. Also make sure that you have a 100% refund guarantee up until you have had your veterinarian check out the breed. This means, you take the puppy and make the financial payments - etc. Then you take the puppy to your veterinarian and have a checkup done to make sure that the breeder hasn't lied to you. Then, if there is something wrong with the puppy you can take the puppy back and get your money back. If the puppy is good, then you call the breeder and let him/her know that the puppy is good to go. These are just some suggestions - good luck with the breeder!

Answer 10

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There's a reason why the Continental Kennel Club is named what it is. It's a CON, and used by BACK YARD BREEDERS and puppy mills that CAN"T register their litters with the AKC. It's not worth the paper it's printed on and a SHAM registry that would register a cross between a Chia Pet and a door knob. You want to buy from and BYBer and then you want to BE ONE, so who am I to judge your ethics? Oops, I guess I just did. You are already talking about breeding a dog you don't even have, but have never said one word about showing it or it earning some sort of titles, not to mention genetic health. Yes, you'll be ripped off if you buy from this person, but even if you go to a reputable breeder, a PET quality dog would be sold to you on limited AKC registration and a spay/castrate contract anyway.

Answer 11

Here are the facts:

* The AKC is the oldest registration body in the USA. It has specific requirements for registration in order to maintain the integrity of a breed's stud book, and conveys fines and suspensions upon people who do not pass its inspections.

* The AKC is a non-profit registry.

* The ConKC sprung into existence about 10 years ago, touting "no hassle", cheap registration services. In order to register a dog as a purebred (if its parents are not ConKC registered), you have to submit pictures of the dog and signatures from people saying, "yep, that's a purebred".

* The ConKC will register any dog, even mixed breeds. It is a privately-owned business, for profit.

Seems to be quite a bit of difference...

"In fact, the breeder I'm considering uses CKC and not AKC because she thinks this will discourage people who want an AKC puppy to one day breed at a puppy mill."

If this is truly her rationale, she is uninformed. Some of the largest puppy mills in the country use the ConKC, specifically because it's cheap and easy to register anything with them. If she really wanted to protect her puppies from being bred, she would register them with the AKC on "Limited" registration, and require that they be spayed and neutered.

"My question is do you think that this is a reputable breeder even though her dogs are CKC?"

As you implied, registering dogs with the AKC doesn't automatically make a breeder reputable. There are plenty of unethical breeders who use the AKC. However, I know of NO reputable breeder who uses the ConKC.

If you really want to know whether this breeder is reputable, find out if they do any genetic testing on their breeding dogs. Do they guarantee genetic health? Is this written in a contract? Will they take your puppy back if you can't keep it? Do they do anything with their dogs, other than breed them?

These are far more important questions than what registry they do or do not use.

Here's a link with information on identifying a responsible breeder:
http://www.dogplay.com/GettingDog/where.html
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/responbr.html#Locate

Good luck!

ADDED: Tonya B
Cavaliers have been AKC recognized for more than 10 years...
http://www.akc.org/breeds/cavalier_king_charles_spaniel/index.cfm